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apollyon
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PostSubject: large breeds   5/10/2012, 3:40 am

okay, so i've had my heterometerus spinifer for about a month now and i think she's the coolest one in my collection because of her size and power. she's at least 8 inches long from head to tail and completely devours mice and lizards in a matter of hours. i'm hooked on large scorpions now and i want more. i know that h swamerdami get just as big as spinifer, but i can't find any info on how large h longimanus or desert haries get. also, if there are any other unreasonably large breeds that you can think of, please let me know. i'm basically looking for the goliath bird eaters of the scorpion world. anything that will reach 7 or more inches in length, not counting their claws.
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Callum B
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 6:20 am

Hadrurus arizonensis is the largest North American scorpion species and can get over 5''/ 13cm long.

The longest scorpion in the world is Hadogenes troglodytes with males reaching up to 21cm, over 8''. However, much of this length is taken up by their very long, thin tail. They're still amazing looking scorpions though.

Are you sure your H. spinifer is over 8'' long? If she is then you better get down to the Guiness World Records because a bulky scorpion like a H. spinifer that is topping out at over 8'' will probably break the current world record of largest scorpion Very Happy

H. swammerdami actually get larger than H. spinifer, potentially reaching 7'' or more, and are the contender along with P. imperator, for the largest scorpion in the world. Both can get huge although most are usually the typical 5'' - 6'' scorpions we see for sale.
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 6:35 am

apollyon wrote:
okay, so i've had my heterometerus spinifer for about a month now and i think she's the coolest one in my collection because of her size and power. she's at least 8 inches long from head to tail and completely devours mice and lizards in a matter of hours... i'm basically looking for the goliath bird eaters of the scorpion world. anything that will reach 7 or more inches in length, not counting their claws.

I think you already own one, based on your description above. Pretty excited for you here.
Any ruler-to-scorpion picture? Smile

As for suggestion, i'm with callum on his comments.
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Scorpeace
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 6:36 am

H. swammerdami holds the record for the largest scorpion in the world if im not mistaken. 23 cm i think the largest specimen was. I would absolutely go for h. swammerdami if i were u apollyon. Hadogenes troglodytes isnt nearly as macho as h. swammerdami IMO.

Male H. mysorensis are also pretty cool looking and can get somewhat big.
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Callum B
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 6:47 am

Scorpeace wrote:
H. swammerdami holds the record for the largest scorpion in the world if im not mistaken. 23 cm i think the largest specimen was.

23cm!!! Thats nearly as long as from my wrist to my elbow. That would be one impressive scorpion.
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 6:50 am

Scorpeace wrote:
H. swammerdami holds the record for the largest scorpion in the world if im not mistaken. 23 cm i think the largest specimen was. I would absolutely go for h. swammerdami if i were u apollyon.

Just make sure you get a male if you're after size. Females are generally much smaller in this sp., staying at around the size of an emo, but still, look more massive due to the huge claws and telson.
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Scorpeace
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 6:55 am

DolbyR wrote:
Scorpeace wrote:
H. swammerdami holds the record for the largest scorpion in the world if im not mistaken. 23 cm i think the largest specimen was. I would absolutely go for h. swammerdami if i were u apollyon.

Just make sure you get a male if you're after size. Females are generally much smaller in this sp., staying at around the size of an emo, but still, look more massive due to the huge claws and telson.


Not in my experience :S From what i've seen its the opposite. Small males and big females. My female was almost twice as "massive" as the male, but also quite longer.
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 7:45 am

Scorpeace wrote:
My female was almost twice as "massive" as the male, but also quite longer.

I agree females are bulkier but from the specimens I've seen, males have always been longer. But it could be due to size differences between different broods. I suppose I'll have some more comparison info one day when my brood matures.

Anyway, back to the topic...

H. troglodytes are nice scorps IMO, yes, not as macho as hets, but it's a pretty nice view when you catch it stretching its tail. I personally like their flat and wide body pretty much too.
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Scorpeace
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/10/2012, 8:03 am

Troglodytes are pretty cool, yeah Smile
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apollyon
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 2:59 am

i'll try to get a picture posted for you all when i find a way. i'm 5'10", 200lbs and she's as big as my hand. maybe i'll get a group shot with all of my scorps so you can see the comparison. but thanks for all the help, i'll have to look up those breeds. and does anyone know how big h longimanus get?
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 3:01 am

apollyon wrote:
does anyone know how big h longimanus get?

I think about 4-5".
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apollyon
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 3:18 am

really? that's kinda disapointing. i just looked up H. mysorensis and it just looks like an h longimanus with more color and granulation, plus it gets bigger, so i'll have to try to find one of them. also, i've noticed that forrest and jungle types seem to prefer to eat vertebrates over invertebrates. could this be why they get so large?
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 4:01 am

apollyon wrote:
i've noticed that forrest and jungle types seem to prefer to eat vertebrates over invertebrates. could this be why they get so large?

Where is this statement based? In your personal experience? Are you talking about scorpions in the wild, or in captivity?
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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 4:28 am

DolbyR wrote:
apollyon wrote:
i've noticed that forrest and jungle types seem to prefer to eat vertebrates over invertebrates. could this be why they get so large?

Where is this statement based? In your personal experience? Are you talking about scorpions in the wild, or in captivity?

Invertebrates make up the most of the diet of any scorpion. The larger scorpions will take down vertebrates from time to time in the wild, but does not make up the main part of their diet. If scorpions were to feed mostly on vertebrates they would not live as long as they do as vertebrates contain too much fat for them to process.
In all the years that I have been keeping scorpions I have only fed a pinky once and that was when I knew very little about them.
People like to think they like to feed on vertebrates because it looks cooler when a scorpion takes down a pinky or lizard.
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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 4:39 am

Dolby, I think most people assume that they eat vertebrates because they are so large, but this has no basis.
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 4:47 am

shadowfoot wrote:
Dolby, I think most people assume

True. As such, we should let apollyon answer before taking further assumptions.
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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 4:51 am

Just to make it clear Im not trying to start a fight, just saying what I have learnt over the years.
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Den
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 10:49 am


I've been busy for a couple of days and it looks like i missed out on this thread although to be honest, upon reading this line:

Quote :
devours mice and lizards in a matter of hours.

I decided i wasn't interested.

But then i read this:

Quote :
People like to think they like to feed on vertebrates because it looks cooler when a scorpion takes down a pinky or lizard.

and felt relieved that at least shadowfoot makes his opinion clear.

I've never fed my scorps any mammal or herp and never will regardless of whether or not they might actually be able to eat one or 2 in the wild (which i'm not at all sure of). There's something perverted and obscene about getting a thrill from watching any animal eat another animal. My scorps have to eat something and that something will always be roaches, crickets, grasshoppers or larvae .
I don't gloat and neither do i get any kick from watching. It's simply a necessity and inverts eating inverts is as natural as it gets.

Quote :
If scorpions were to feed mostly on vertebrates they would not live as long as they do as vertebrates contain too much fat for them to process.

I would tend to agree with this statement to.

Quote :
i've noticed that forrest and jungle types seem to prefer to eat vertebrates over invertebrates. could this be why they get so large?

Of course you've noticed it because you do it....I've never seen any nature program that has shown this and ever since i first became interested in scorpions i have never heard anyone mention feeding mammals or herps to scorpions.,...........As far as i'm concerned it's simply not done!

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Callum B
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 11:32 am

I wish this forum had a like button.

I guess we don't want this forum turning in to other well known forums when people who may be new to scorpions post about something that is generally frowned upon by most other keepers and/or make an honest mistake and then get destroyed for it by more experienced members. Not that anyones done that here but some posts really can get you wound up lol.

However, I do completely agree with your opinion on feeding scorpions vertebrates. I know with a lot of tarantula keepers, there is also some concern that regular feeding of vertebrate prey to T's could actually be deterimental to their health. Whether this is also true with scorpions I don't know, but vertebrates are not common prey items for scorpions in the wild, so why choose to feed them to captive scorpions?

OP, other large scorpions you could look out for, although you'll be lucky to find some of them........

Pandinus dictator (16cm), Nebo grandis can apparently reach 15cm, Hadogenes paucidens, although not as long as H. troglodytes will still reach 16cm.

Very few scorpions get any bigger than 15cm/6''
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apollyon
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 12:05 pm

i can give her crickets and she will generally ignore them for days while the emperor eats them. basically if i dump in 6 crickets, she'll eat one while the emperor eats the rest. if i introduce a mouse or lizard into the enclosure, then they both chase it. when she caught the anole, she already had a cricket hanging out of her mouth. she dropped the half eaten cricket to eat the anole. the guy i bought her from had her for 2 years and fed her pinkies regularly and she had no trouble molting. think about it though, T. Blondi is the largest tarantula in the world and about half their diet is vertebrates. the largest predatory insects are mantids. both tarantulas and mantids have been found in the wild eating mice, lizards, amphibians, venomous snakes, birds, and sometimes bats. a fishing spider get's it's name because it will catch and eat fish. lobsters and crayfish have an almost identical anatomy to scorpions, and the majority of they're diet is marine vertebrates. say what you will, but when given both; she chooses the vertebrates over the inverts every time. if she got this big eating pinkies 1-2 times per month over the past 2 years before i got her, then i see no reason to change her diet now.
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apollyon
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 12:21 pm

and my size estimate was off, she's 8" with claws. she's about 6" from head to tail this was the first time i actually put her next to a ruler. so no world records yet, but she's the biggest scorpion i've ever seen. sorry if i got anyone excited about her size. she's getting pretty plump though, so hopefully she'll moult soon.
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Den
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 12:47 pm


Quote :
T. Blondi is the largest tarantula in the world and about half their diet is vertebrates

That's open to discussion although this discussion is about scorpions, not spiders. So what is the point you are trying to make?

Quote :
both tarantulas and mantids have been found in the wild eating mice, lizards, amphibians, venomous snakes, birds, and sometimes bats.

But in all cases these are random and rare events. Non inverts are not their staple diet.

Quote :
a fishing spider get's it's name because it will catch and eat fish.

That spider has evolved and adapted itself to that environment and food source. So again...what is the point you are trying to make. Are you implying that "some inverts eat non inverts, ergo, all inverts eat non inverts"?

Quote :
lobsters and crayfish have an almost identical anatomy to scorpions

We share a similar anatomy to apes, chimpanzees, orangutangs and many other primates..If we ate as many of them do we would almost certainly die young of vitamin and mineral deficiency...Similar anatomy is no basis for an argument here.

Quote :
say what you will, but when given both; she chooses the vertebrates over the inverts every time

And my daughter would undoubtedly choose chocolate and cola over any other type of food and drink if she had the chance....and we all know what would happen if i let her do that.

Quote :
if she got this big eating pinkies 1-2 times per month over the past 2 years before i got her, then i see no reason to change her diet now

She has got as big as she is because her species is a large scorpion not because you feed her non inverts. That same logic would also suggest that scorpions that eat inverts will be smaller than those that don't and that is provably incorrect.....and feeding an anole to a scorpion!...i honestly don't know how you could do that. What Californian scorpions live in trees and bushes and hunt anoles..I don't believe you could find one....and even if you could it certainly wouldn't be the scorpions staple diet.

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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 1:05 pm

'' non inverts'' I like it Den. Vertebrates never seemed a good word to me either Very Happy Sorry, I'm just messing.

Apolloyon, if you have to feed your scorpions mice, lizards etc. I wouldn't recommend talking about on forums as it is not the 'done' thing. There is no evidence that I am aware of that suggests any scorpion species regularly preys on small mammals, a mouse can also do a lot of damage when cornered.
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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 1:06 pm

+1 to EVERYTHING Den said, especially the part about the chocolate or cola lol.
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: large breeds   5/11/2012, 1:16 pm

Good points guys (Den, Callum, Shadowfoot).

Apollyon, don't overlook what has been said. The guys have made valid arguments why not to feed mammals/herps.

Now, I suggest all get back to topic, or continue the discussion ina separate one.
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