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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/7/2012, 2:13 pm

so far, i have a male parabuthus liosoma and a female emperor living together in a 20 gallon tank. they've been in there together for over a month without any conflict. is this just because they are of the opposite sex, or do different species often get along together? i want to add a P. transvaaculus, an A. australis, and an A. crassacuada. does anyone think this would cause a problem?
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Callum B
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/7/2012, 3:18 pm

Is this post a wind up lol??
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/7/2012, 3:27 pm

Suspect Suspect Suspect
Apollyon, aren't you the same dude which started the following thread?
http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com/t8090-ppe-for-mating-scorpions#94913

I'm too tired to handle this now ...
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Callum B
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/7/2012, 3:33 pm

Hmmm, should we answer this?? I'm sure there will be someone sat in front of a computer laughing their head off if we do lol. This really can't be real, especially after seeing the other thread.
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/7/2012, 3:43 pm

It's either like you said Callum Bro, or Apollyon simply sleeps standing up or eats while he's lying down.

I think i'll give this a pass now... i choose to help those who help themselves... so to speak.
I have said before, it's okay to be new but to asking irresponsibly without any effort on their part to research is.. ermm.... rude?

Btw, these few weeks have been strange with such posts..



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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/7/2012, 3:49 pm

Whahahahaha. Sorry for the outburst, this post made my day!
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/8/2012, 4:23 am

GS wrote:
Btw, these few weeks have been strange with such posts..

Must be that time of the month..
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Dont_Play<--
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/8/2012, 9:49 am

Why would you want to mix breed?!? Dude you got some issues....
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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/8/2012, 11:28 pm

i'm not talking about cross breeding, what i mean is: is it safe to keep that many different species in the same enclosure? i have 2 different species together in a 20gal tank and they get along fine. one half of the tank is all sand with a heating pad under it while the other half is wood chips that i keep moist. there are high spots, low spots, and things to climb on so they can move around the tank freely to regulate body temp and humidity. i've read that the P. liosoma is not a communal species, but he curls up right next to my emperor and they'll sleep like that all day. when they're running around and bump into each other, they simply change direction or climb over each other. i've had them together for a while and there hasn't been any conflict yet. they're well fed and healthy. i just want to know if anyone else has kept different species together and weather or not there was a problem. i know i can research this all day and i have. i just want to hear about other peoples' experiences on the subject. that's why forums exist, right?
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lmiller
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/8/2012, 11:39 pm

Honestly, I think your flirting with disaster, it may work for awhile, but sooner or later your going to wake up to at least 1 dead specimen.
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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/8/2012, 11:44 pm

thank you, does anyone else actually have any useful input?
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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 1:15 am

just so you all know, when i was in iraq, we kept wild A. australis and A. crassicuada in an ammo can together. they would curl up together to sleep, and the only things they attacked were camel spiders and crickets the whole time they were in there. so if 2 wild scorps of different breeds can get along for 2 weeks in a .50cal can in 130 degree heat; then i see no reason for captive breed ones to fight in a 20 gal tank with every thing they need.


does anyone else on here have any experience with this, or to the best of your knowledge be able to form an intelligent opinion or answer to help guide me?
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lmiller
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 1:46 am

Useful information? How about the fact that Emperors DO NOT live in sand in the wild? They also dont like dry conditions, so you make one half of the tank wet. Then you got the Parabuthus which im thinking(and correct me if im wrong) doesnt need moisture like you say you have for your emp. They require Arid/semi-arid grassland/savannah. Moderate humidity. The emp...This species like it warm and humid. Keep the temperature maintained at about at 75 - 82 F with the humidity level at 75 to 80% You have a desert species and a forest species in the same enviroment You can say and do what you want. Noone here can make you do something you dont want to do. All anyone can do is try to offer information that YOU came here looking for.
Youve been told that it will NOT work out in the end, yet you still keep asking. So let them stay together, if the parabuthus doesnt get mycosis or the emp doesnt get stung to death then you did something noone else would try. Either way let us know how things go for you. Good luck.
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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 1:57 am

thank you lmiller. so far, you've been the only one to actually offer advice, share your opinion and knowledge, and warn me of the hazards; rather than laughing at me for asking this question. i appreciate your help, and yes, i'll let you all know how it turns out.
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lmiller
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 2:07 am

Nobody wants your scorpies to die. Nor do we want you to fail in raising them. If you want them to be happy and healthy, seperate them and find them each a mate. Plus you will have 4 instead of 2. LOL. Everyone knows more is better. Took me a minute to convince my wife that but it worked out for me in the end.
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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 2:35 am

thanks. after reviewing your advice, i think i'll just separate these 2. i'll move my emperor into a spare 10 gallon tank and convert the 20gal into a desert only tank since the other ones i'm getting are all desert types. as i previously stated, i found that different types get along. however, as you pointed out. i don't want to risk mycosis in my dessert types, nor do i want to dry out my emperor. so, i really appreciate your advice. and the reason i haven't gotten my emperor a mate is because she's mildly gravid. to introduce a male of the same species would just start a fight. and i haven't gotten my P.liosoma a mate because i can't find a supplier that has any sub adults available. so far, i've been able to order a sub adult female P. transvaalicus that i can't find a mate for, and a pair of juvenile A. australis which all measure between 2 1/2 and 3 inches. so i think they'll all get along. except for the female A. australis. i'll keep her in a separate container to prevent stress and still be able to breed her. if i can find a match, then l'll separate the female P. transvalicus for breeding too. who knows, i might end up with a P. transoma or liovaalicus, lol.
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 3:13 am

apollyon, it's a common saying here that all scorps are communal... until they're not.
I won't tell you if to keep them together or not, that is up to you. Just a word of advice, that there is always a risk for cannibalizm, even between specimens of the same species, specially with buthids.
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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 6:22 am

Regarding the scorps laying together, they do this because that spot where they lay together has the best micro habitat, meaning the best temp and so forth or there arent enough hides.
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 6:53 am

apollyon wrote:
thank you lmiller. so far, you've been the only one to actually offer advice, share your opinion and knowledge, and warn me of the hazards; rather than laughing at me for asking this question

apollyon,
My apologies if you felt being laughed at.
Just to clarify, you should really hear yourself and understand why many of us come off this way..

The following quotes are from your first post in this thread, broken up so that i can address each of them now:
apollyon wrote:
so far, i have a male parabuthus liosoma and a female emperor living together in a 20 gallon tank
Simply from the above statement (before you clarify) i really have no idea how are you keeping them, damp substrate ? sand ?
They requires totally different sets of substrate! It's not just because of one belonging to forest and the other belonging to desert, in my experience, Parabuthus liosoma is extremely vulnerable to high humidity and may develop mycosis symptoms easily. Hence, a substrate that would work well for an emperor scorpion is definitely not ideal for Parabuthus liosoma..

apollyon wrote:
they've been in there together for over a month without any conflict. is this just because they are of the opposite sex, or do different species often get along together?
FYI, stress scorpions are mostly likely preoccupied in trying to adjust themselves to the surroundings than to engage in conflicts. You may find scorpions which have settled down comfortably in their burrow/hide more likely to enage in territorial fight if they feel threatened. And the reason is definitely not because of being in opposite sex, can a male cobra and female mongoose stay in harmony in a 20 gallon tank just because they are in opposite sex?

and you added this statement at the end of your paragraph:
apollyon wrote:
i want to add a P. transvaaculus, an A. australis, and an A. crassacuada. does anyone think this would cause a problem?
After reading this, many concern peeps here will be Bang HeadBang Head
Hope you can see what i'm driving at. Your initial post along with your very first thread is really hard to get what you are really doing without more clarifications.

Then, you clarified further in your 2nd post:
apollyon wrote:
i'm not talking about cross breeding, what i mean is: is it safe to keep that many different species in the same enclosure? i have 2 different species together in a 20gal tank and they get along fine. one half of the tank is all sand with a heating pad under it while the other half is wood chips that i keep moist. there are high spots, low spots, and things to climb on so they can move around the tank freely to regulate body temp and humidity. i've read that the P. liosoma is not a communal species, but he curls up right next to my emperor and they'll sleep like that all day. when they're running around and bump into each other, they simply change direction or climb over each other. i've had them together for a while and there hasn't been any conflict yet. they're well fed and healthy. i just want to know if anyone else has kept different species together and weather or not there was a problem. i know i can research this all day and i have. i just want to hear about other peoples' experiences on the subject. that's why forums exist, right?
First, if you have done your research, you would have read the "800" posts in the forums that NEVER to put the heat pad below the tank and the recommended substrate that enables burrowing for emperor scorpions is never wood chips.

apollyon wrote:
there are high spots, low spots, and things to climb on so they can move around the tank freely to regulate body temp and humidity
This is like asking a person to walk on stilt 24/7 in his home and not allowed to sit down or to remove his stilt.
Sure of cos, he can walk around in a house to find a tall closet here and there to wrap his arms around it and enjoy a temporarily rest from all the walking but don't you think he will be more comfortable with his stilt removed and sit down on a comfortable spot where he can truly rest his feet? For the emperor scorpion, it means having a dampened and strong burrow where he can find comfort in darkness.

Hence, this is just not advisable. There isn't much regulating of humidity to do here, i do not do know much water did you put in for the wood chip, if it's too little, it ain't enough for the emps, if the quantity is sufficient, the water will most likely seep through and cause the sand to be wet as well. Even there is indeed, a spot of dry sand for the P.liosoma, the overall humidity if the tank will definitely be bumped up be higher then what they need due to the wet substrate. Regulating is usually done on similar terrain but with one side sligher higher humidity/heat then the other.

Examples:
1. A deep sand substrate custom made for a Hadrurus arizonensis (full sand or sand/clay mix), e.g. she can just dig deeper for higher humidity
2. A heat lamp on a single side of a emperor scorpion's enclosure (e.g. full coco fibre/peat packed down to support burrow), e.g. if she needed some basking, she can always stay on the hotter side

I'm glad that lmiller has given good advices and you have decided to heed them.

Regards,
GS





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apollyon
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PostSubject: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 1:19 pm

i appreciate your help. i do relize now that my initial post may have sounded a little rediculus, but the answers you've given me were just what i was looking for. there are plenty of places for them to hide, and they seem to be pretty settled in. my room stays in the low 60's so i figured the best way to heat the tank would be to place the pad under the tank on the side with the sand. the high spots are in the 60's, the low spot is in the low 90's and the middle ground is in the mid 70's. the sandy side is at about 50% humidity and the side with the wood chips is about 75%. i've also found that my emperor will sometimes go to the low warm spot in the sand and lay there for an hour or 2 before going back to her little cave. likewise, i've seen my P. liosoma go to the moist side to drink from the wet sponge before going back to his little scrape in the sand. watching them do this made me think that they had the ideal habittat to regulate both body temp and humidity. but i knew someone out there would know more than me about this. so i joined this forum for your oppinions and you've helped me out. i now see that it's not ideal, so i'm going to make some changes. just to be clear though. should i keep a wet sponge in the desert tank, or should i just just use the small water dish?
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PostSubject: Re: mixing breeds   3/9/2012, 1:49 pm

I'll highly recommend shallow water dish.

Also, you may wish to consider Infra Red Heat lamp to bring up the temperature of your different enclosures. A search of them via google will reveal many good results.

A few simple caresheets can also be found at my signature, might not be the best approach but may serve as a simple guideline.
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