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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/4/2012, 3:53 pm

So I've been keeping a trio of Emperors for close to a year now - I love em.

Recently, I've gotten my hands on an extra 5 Gallon enclosure, and I want to try a desert species. I hear they can be more active, and after keeping three pet holes this long, I could use that.

My debates are between the Hadrurus Arizonensis (Giant Hairy Scorpion) and the Centruroides Sculpturatus (Arizona Bark Scorpion). My local resource for all my exotics stocks both regularly, so I'm glad to have the options.

What does the community think? I'm aware of the Bark Scorpion's risk. From what I've read, the Giant Hairy has less potent venom. Let me know what you all think!
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VictorHernandez
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/4/2012, 5:35 pm

Yeah, I would go with a Hadrurus arizonensis. They are active, but not communal. They require sand/excavator clay substrate mix that's pretty deep(8in is best) and are quite large(largest in the US) and would be better to house them in a 10 gallon.
You can also check out the Smeringurus mesaensis, its a medium sized desert scorpion, and only needs some sand as substrate. It is more active than the Hadrurus, and the venom is the same, and it's not communal(actually very cannibalistic). 10 gallon would be nice for them since they are so active, but they'd do fine in a 5 gallon.
I don't know much about the C. sculpturatus, other than it's communal and the most venomous scorpion in the US. I wouldn't want them to escape, as they climb(not glass though).
Hadrurus scorpions burrow A LOT.
Smeringurus just have little scrapes.
Centruroides love hiding in vertical bark and wood, hence the name "Bark Scorpion".
As far as I know, all these scorpions regularly sting their prey.
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Scorpion19981000
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/5/2012, 6:45 pm

+1 to Victor.


In addition to any of the Hadrurus or Smeringurus species, others that come to mind are Ophistothalmus sp, Scorpio maurus, Centruroides vittatus, Hadogenes sp., pretty much anything in the Vaejovidae family, and Anuroctonus phaiodactylus.

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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/5/2012, 11:52 pm

try a vaejovius/hoffmanius spinigerus. they're quite a beauty. looks like you did your research and since you're quite aware of the danger posed by some species, might as well get a H.hottentotta or a p.transvaalicus.

good luck and congrats! Smile
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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 11:24 am

First - thanks for the help!

I've got some more researching to do. Scorpion, do you have any particular recommendations out of the Vaejovidae family? Again, I want an arid/semi-arid breed - the more active the better.

I really only have access to a 5 gallon right now - though I've somewhat fallen in love with the Giant Hairy Desert Scorpion's appearance. I read they can burrow as much as 8 FEET.

This is the enclosure I'm going to use - I just transplanted my three Emps over to my 10 Gallon and I'm going to empty this out. I could buy a new one if needed, but I'm working on limited funds.

That brings me to my next question: Cost.

Is anyone familiar with purchasing these in the Chicago/Central United States area? My local keeper has a few breeds in stock - including the Arizona Bark Scorpion, the Striped Bark Scorpion, and the Giant Hairy. If I'm going with something more exotic, I'd be concerned about the cost of them as well as how to acquire them.

EDIT: Also, a friend just shot me this site - Swift's Inverts. Anyone ordered from here? He's got three of the breeds I'm looking at.

Thanks again!
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 11:59 am

The striped barks are a cool breed. Not desert or tropical - sort of inbetween. They are VERY communal and readily breed in captivity. They do not burrow and are active at night in their cage. They are fun in a colony and don't need a lot of room.
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 2:51 pm

Seeing as you only have a 5 gal I recommend s.mesanensis (probably spelled that wrong...it's been a while)
@ victor I've had success keeping 3 arizonensis together in the past but it took a pretty big tank And lots of hides
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VictorHernandez
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 8:23 pm

~Abyss~ wrote:

@ victor I've had success keeping 3 arizonensis together in the past but it took a pretty big tank And lots of hides
I have heard about people having success with keeping a few together, but they are generally not considered a communal species.
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 8:27 pm

Your right they won't share hides and in enclosed spaces they'll canabilize. I'm just saying that they're not as intolerant of each other under the right conditions as other species like h.paucidens.
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VictorHernandez
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 8:32 pm

Hoffimanius spinuigerus don't require a huge enclosure, and they are considered the most active scorpion in the hobby.
Prices for any of these species are not crazy. I know someone on arachnoboards who sells his Hadrurus arizonensis for $10 and $5 for shipping. There are many scorpions for sale on Ken The Bug Guy, I would recommend them.
Keep in mind that Hadrurus have a lot of trouble molting in captivity, so you must get a wild caught adult. Breeding them and rearing the scorplings would be very hard as well. But they can live up to 15 years in captivity.


Last edited by VictorHernandez on 12/6/2012, 8:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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VictorHernandez
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/6/2012, 8:33 pm

~Abyss~ wrote:
Your right they won't share hides and in enclosed spaces they'll canabilize. I'm just saying that they're not as intolerant of each other under the right conditions as other species like h.paucidens.
Yes, correct.
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/10/2012, 10:34 pm

Bayushi-san wrote:
First - thanks for the help!

I've got some more researching to do. Scorpion, do you have any particular recommendations out of the Vaejovidae family? Again, I want an arid/semi-arid breed - the more active the better.

Paruroctonus and Smeringerus species are nice. They reach a fair size (though not as large as Hadrurus) and are pretty active scorps. There's a good caresheet on Smeringerus mesaensis on this forum if you've not read it already.

Quote :
I really only have access to a 5 gallon right now - though I've somewhat fallen in love with the Giant Hairy Desert Scorpion's appearance. I read they can burrow as much as 8 FEET.

Yeah, Haddys are nice looking.

One correction though, while they've only been known to construct burrows two or three feet deep. They have however been found in abandoned rodent tunnels that are 6-8 feet deep.


Quote :
That brings me to my next question: Cost.

Is anyone familiar with purchasing these in the Chicago/Central United States area? My local keeper has a few breeds in stock - including the Arizona Bark Scorpion, the Striped Bark Scorpion, and the Giant Hairy. If I'm going with something more exotic, I'd be concerned about the cost of them as well as how to acquire them.
Price varies between the size and species, but these aren't too expensive. An adult Hadrurus arizonensis will probably run you around $25. However, shipping can be just as, if not more expensive than the scorp.

Quote :
EDIT: Also, a friend just shot me this site - Swift's Inverts. Anyone ordered from here? He's got three of the breeds I'm looking at.

Thanks again!
Kelly is a great dealer and I wouldn't hesitate to order from him again.

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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/10/2012, 11:15 pm

Early Christmas! A family member gave me an old 10 Gallon fish tank for helping fix their computer! Options are open!

Tomorrow I'll know what my local Invert Retailer has available right now. Something I noticed about Swift's - it's all mostly adult wild caught.

Should I look for younger scorpions, or are the adult ones best to go with. Someone mentioned the Hairies had trouble molting in captivity.

Also - building the enclosure.

Lets say we settle at S. Mesaensis or H. Arizonensis. I'm assuming a few inches of sand left to dry. I keep hearing about excavator clay/sand. Also, should I set up a False Bottom of any kind, or leave it to the sand to retain moisture. I'm planning on lighting this with a timed white heat lamp - keeping it off at night for at least 8 hours. Temp will be 80-90 during the day, but at night it will get cooler. From my understanding, American Deserts have a similar temperature variance during a normal cycle. My room ambient is around 65-70, maybe a little colder in the winter. Shouldn't be too much of an issue, right?

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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/11/2012, 12:00 am

Bayushi-san wrote:
Early Christmas! A family member gave me an old 10 Gallon fish tank for helping fix their computer! Options are open!

Tomorrow I'll know what my local Invert Retailer has available right now. Something I noticed about Swift's - it's all mostly adult wild caught.

Should I look for younger scorpions, or are the adult ones best to go with. Someone mentioned the Hairies had trouble molting in captivity.

Also - building the enclosure.

Lets say we settle at S. Mesaensis or H. Arizonensis. I'm assuming a few inches of sand left to dry. I keep hearing about excavator clay/sand. Also, should I set up a False Bottom of any kind, or leave it to the sand to retain moisture. I'm planning on lighting this with a timed white heat lamp - keeping it off at night for at least 8 hours. Temp will be 80-90 during the day, but at night it will get cooler. From my understanding, American Deserts have a similar temperature variance during a normal cycle. My room ambient is around 65-70, maybe a little colder in the winter. Shouldn't be too much of an issue, right?

If it's a Smeringurus mesaensis, I'd go with the younger specimens. A Hadrurus must be an adult, as most die molting in captivity. Smeringurus only need some play sand and some rocks or cork bark, but Hadrurus, as I said earlier, burrow a lot. Hadrurus must have some kind of substrate to support their extensive burrows. 17% clay with play sand would be best. False bottom is up to you with the Hadrurus, and if you set one up, just add a little water at the end of September, as in the wilds of Arizona that is when the certain rains start.
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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/11/2012, 9:47 pm

Alright - Settled on the Arizonensis.

Here are a few pics of my fresh set up - I'm gonna let it bake in it's heat lamp for a few days - probably as long as it takes Swift to send me some, since my local store won't answer me anymore.

If you guys can recommend any changes, issues with this, let me know!

Whole tank with Soda Can for reference.

Hide number 1 - shallow dug, maybe a few inches. Something to start him/her off with.

Same idea for second hide - a few inches dug. Nothing crazy.

I'm going to be adding another piece of scenery/climbing thing for the Great Desert Hairy, but it's not done yet. ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/11/2012, 10:14 pm

Bayushi-san wrote:
Alright - Settled on the Arizonensis.

Here are a few pics of my fresh set up - I'm gonna let it bake in it's heat lamp for a few days - probably as long as it takes Swift to send me some, since my local store won't answer me anymore.

If you guys can recommend any changes, issues with this, let me know!

Whole tank with Soda Can for reference.

Hide number 1 - shallow dug, maybe a few inches. Something to start him/her off with.

Same idea for second hide - a few inches dug. Nothing crazy.

I'm going to be adding another piece of scenery/climbing thing for the Great Desert Hairy, but it's not done yet. ^_^
You can try contacting 'Greenjewls' on arachnoboards, his specimens are $15 and $5 for shipping. He has good reviews.
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/11/2012, 11:43 pm

That's a nice little set up. I like it. Keep in mind that every day you'll see some stuff moved around. Scorpions tend to redecorate while we sleep.
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/12/2012, 2:26 pm

Nice looking setup, but IMHO not nearly deep enough for a Haddy. I would remove the hides and decorations and let what you have dry out. Then, add more substrate, at least as much as you already have, and mound it up on one side of the tank to create a slope or hill side. Imbed your hides into the hill side at different elevations.

An ideal setup would have one half of the tank about 8" deep, sloping down to about 2" or less. The shallow side is not for tunneling, but to hold the substrate excavated from the tunnels in the deep side. There will be a lot of it and it has to go somewhere. Eventually, your shallow side will probably double in depth. I've had to remove excavated substrate from my tank twice now because I didn't leave enough room for it (my tank is only 12x12x12 inches).
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Desert Breeds   12/13/2012, 12:07 am

Shebeen, you have given me what I sought. Thanks for the heads up.

I'll be building some sand castles then. Very Happy
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