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 Sphagnum moss

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guats85
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PostSubject: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 3:19 pm

Has anyone had anyone had experience with this moss? I read in an article that it should be used in burrows to keep them moist, even with desert species. Any thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 3:29 pm

i use it with my heterometrus an pandinus scorpion's i just put a handful of it in the setup an give it a good spray when i spray the setup it hold's the moisture very well
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 3:35 pm

You ues it in the main part of the enclosure and not just in burrows?
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 4:26 pm

i just put a bit in the enclosure like this

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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 5:12 pm

Ok cool. Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 5:41 pm


i've used it before as a sole substrate for heterometrus. there are white, green and a normal brown color. just pour hot water first before using then leave it for 5 minutes. rinse it with cold water and squeeze it firmly but not too tight to remove excess water. gently pull it apart and use it for whatever you wish.

a nicely soaked sphagnum moss will usually stay moist for up to 2 weeks depending on quantity used
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 6:29 pm

exoticvirus wrote:

i've used it before as a sole substrate for heterometrus. there are white, green and a normal brown color. just pour hot water first before using then leave it for 5 minutes. rinse it with cold water and squeeze it firmly but not too tight to remove excess water. gently pull it apart and use it for whatever you wish.

a nicely soaked sphagnum moss will usually stay moist for up to 2 weeks depending on quantity used

Thanks so much! GREAT info!!! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 7:07 pm


no prob. from what i noticed, they give a natural 'dramatic' looking effect when mixed with sand and gravel but since you have an emp it wont really matter coz you need something that'll hold humidity Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 7:15 pm

exoticvirus wrote:

no prob. from what i noticed, they give a natural 'dramatic' looking effect when mixed with sand and gravel but since you have an emp it wont really matter coz you need something that'll hold humidity Very Happy
Mine is a hadrurus arizonensis actually but I wanted to know if I could put it in a burrow so she has one with some moisture if she chooses. I figure if she needs to molt, she could make good use of a damp burrow since thats what they do in the wild. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 7:20 pm

ohh. my bad. i got chris' pic mistaken for yours haha!

yeah i guess you can do that. from what i read regarding haddies they like semi-humid burrows/hides
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 7:24 pm

No biggie! I think Ill give it a try and see how she reacts. Id like it to be an option if she wants it. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 7:37 pm

yes, it should. go and make haste! lol
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 7:53 pm

Will do!! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 9:41 pm

Be super careful adding anything that holds humidity to a Hadrurus enclosure. They are very prone to mycosis. If you keep the moss in there I would strongly suggest keeping that area and the amount of moss small. Maybe squirt a tiny amount of water on the moss with a syringe no more than once a month. Also make sure the top of the enclosure is screen to allow maximum ventilation. Let it dry out and stay dry most all of the month. Good luck.
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/19/2013, 9:48 pm

Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. I will keep the moisture to a minimum. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 10:03 am


guats85 wrote:
Has anyone had anyone had experience with this moss? I read in an article that it should be used in burrows to keep them moist, even with desert species.

Absolutely not!! ... I'd like to know where you read that because you don't want any moisture retaining products in most all desert specie setups....Keeping desert specie burrows moist is a one way trip to mycosis hell...Besides, whats wrong with consolidated sand?...thats what you'll find most burrowing desert species on naturally, so there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

And you mentioned you'll keep moisture to a minimum. Well you won't be able to do that with damp moss....and if you let it dry out totally i can't see how it could be beneficial in any way in a desert setup....apart from decoration and maybe a small splat of it in one corner that you could moisten once a month or so.

Your H. arizonensis will get most all it's moisture from it's prey plus whatever is in the air naturally....A small water bowl that when filled will naturally evaporate over the course of 1 or 2 days and then not be filled again for another 3 weeks, month could be used as a supplement but understand........You want your enclosure to be dry!...not dryish. So keeping moisture to a minimum should be understood literally .. as in 97% of the time your haddy enclosure is bone dry.....and especially so if your haddy is adult meaning it won't be moulting anymore.

For younger specimens and gravid females slightly damper sand at the very bottom of the enclosure may be beneficial to moulting/giving birth....but when i say at the very bottom i'm talking about 1 or 2 inches of not quite dry sand laying underneath 12 inches or more of dry consolidated sand. Burrows can maybe be slightly damp at the bottom but most of it has got to be dry. If your enclosure doesn't have a deep substrate level then damp sand at the bottom will mean dampish sand also close to the top and as i mentioned before....thats a one way ticket to mycosis.

If i was you i'd research haddy setups and consolidated sand/excavator sand/sand,clay mix and go with what works instead of using something that quite frankly is imo totally unsuitable......and lastly, don't ignore the mycosis risk...Haddys are especially susceptible to it.

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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 10:35 am

Den wrote:

guats85 wrote:
Has anyone had anyone had experience with this moss? I read in an article that it should be used in burrows to keep them moist, even with desert species.

Absolutely not!! ... I'd like to know where you read that because you don't want any moisture retaining products in most all desert specie setups....Keeping desert specie burrows moist is a one way trip to mycosis hell...Besides, whats wrong with consolidated sand?...thats what you'll find most burrowing desert species on naturally, so there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

And you mentioned you'll keep moisture to a minimum. Well you won't be able to do that with damp moss....and if you let it dry out totally i can't see how it could be beneficial in any way in a desert setup....apart from decoration and maybe a small splat of it in one corner that you could moisten once a month or so.

Your H. arizonensis will get most all it's moisture from it's prey plus whatever is in the air naturally....A small water bowl that when filled will naturally evaporate over the course of 1 or 2 days and then not be filled again for another 3 weeks, month could be used as a supplement but understand........You want your enclosure to be dry!...not dryish. So keeping moisture to a minimum should be understood literally .. as in 97% of the time your haddy enclosure is bone dry.....and especially so if your haddy is adult meaning it won't be moulting anymore.

For younger specimens and gravid females slightly damper sand at the very bottom of the enclosure may be beneficial to moulting/giving birth....but when i say at the very bottom i'm talking about 1 or 2 inches of not quite dry sand laying underneath 12 inches or more of dry consolidated sand. Burrows can maybe be slightly damp at the bottom but most of it has got to be dry. If your enclosure doesn't have a deep substrate level then damp sand at the bottom will mean dampish sand also close to the top and as i mentioned before....thats a one way ticket to mycosis.

If i was you i'd research haddy setups and consolidated sand/excavator sand/sand,clay mix and go with what works instead of using something that quite frankly is imo totally unsuitable......and lastly, don't ignore the mycosis risk...Haddys are especially susceptible to it.

I appreciate the advise. I currently have my haddy in an all sand enclosure, but I am building her a biger enclosure with a mixture of sand and clay with a ratio of 75% sand and 25% clay. I dont believe she is fully grown and want to be prepared for when she does molt as the enclosure being too dry during this could kill her as well. In the wild, they do spend a good amount of time in moist burrows, esp when the female is gravid or about to molt. I want to provide something simular to what she would have in the wild in this situation. Of course she will have an almost completely dry enclosure other than that, I just want her to have the option IF she wants it and she will have many other dry burrow options including the ones she creates.
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 4:59 pm


Quote :
I appreciate the advise. I currently have my haddy in an all sand enclosure, but I am building her a biger enclosure with a mixture of sand and clay with a ratio of 75% sand and 25% clay. I dont believe she is fully grown and want to be prepared for when she does molt as the enclosure being too dry during this could kill her as well. In the wild, they do spend a good amount of time in moist burrows, esp when the female is gravid or about to molt. I want to provide something simular to what she would have in the wild in this situation. Of course she will have an almost completely dry enclosure other than that, I just want her to have the option IF she wants it and she will have many other dry burrow options including the ones she creates. [

Hi!

I really suggest to take Den's advise. I am in exactly the same spot as you.

Forget about the moss...really!
Do not place any moisture retaining substances in your set up.

I believe Eddy gave me a good tip, if you have multiple hides occasionally mist very lightly under one of them, so your Haddy can choose.

I have a water dish smaller than a bottle cap actually it's something like 1 cm in diameter I think. Which I only fill if I see her and I let it evaporate. So most of the time there is no water at all.

Haddy's are so very prone to mycosis I would not take the risk.
In the wild they regulate their moisture requirement by digging deeper thus choosing exactly what they need.

This is extremely hard to copy in captivity I think.

My Haddy has some mycosis, I let her be in her tunnels, and are very careful with even a drop of water. Nothing more I can do than to try and eliminate the risk of more mycosis.

Just give it the sand mix you are planning to give, and try and offer multiple hides if you have the space.


Take care ,

Joey









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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 5:18 pm

Shakudo wrote:

Quote :
I appreciate the advise. I currently have my haddy in an all sand enclosure, but I am building her a biger enclosure with a mixture of sand and clay with a ratio of 75% sand and 25% clay. I dont believe she is fully grown and want to be prepared for when she does molt as the enclosure being too dry during this could kill her as well. In the wild, they do spend a good amount of time in moist burrows, esp when the female is gravid or about to molt. I want to provide something simular to what she would have in the wild in this situation. Of course she will have an almost completely dry enclosure other than that, I just want her to have the option IF she wants it and she will have many other dry burrow options including the ones she creates. [

Hi!

I really suggest to take Den's advise. I am in exactly the same spot as you.

Forget about the moss...really!
Do not place any moisture retaining substances in your set up.

I believe Eddy gave me a good tip, if you have multiple hides occasionally mist very lightly under one of them, so your Haddy can choose.

I have a water dish smaller than a bottle cap actually it's something like 1 cm in diameter I think. Which I only fill if I see her and I let it evaporate. So most of the time there is no water at all.

Haddy's are so very prone to mycosis I would not take the risk.
In the wild they regulate their moisture requirement by digging deeper thus choosing exactly what they need.

This is extremely hard to copy in captivity I think.

My Haddy has some mycosis, I let her be in her tunnels, and are very careful with even a drop of water. Nothing more I can do than to try and eliminate the risk of more mycosis.

Just give it the sand mix you are planning to give, and try and offer multiple hides if you have the space.


Take care ,

Joey
Ok I guess I will forgo the moss and go with a light misting of one of her burrows. I dont want to risk even the slightest mycosis. Thats what I get for listening to article writing "pros." I always appreciate advise so thanks to all who offered it!! Very Happy



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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 5:24 pm

Im going to post a part of the article I read that brought this on.

Humidity

Rainforest species require humidity levels in the range of 75-85%, while those from arid habitats do best at 40-50% humidity. Desert-dwelling scorpions spend most of their time in moist burrows, and should be provided a cave stocked with damp sphagnum moss.

I wrote the writer:

Hi Frank. I am trying to be prepared for when my Hadrurus arizonensis starts to molt. You mentioned the Sphagnum moss for some, but would this be advisable for desert scorpions like mine? Iím afraid this may be TOO damp.

Thank you, Stephen


He responded:

Hello Stephen,

Good question, thanks for raising it. They live in arid habitats, but spend most of their time in burrows and other shelters where the humidity is much higher than on the surfaceÖthey likely seek out such places when molting as well. Best to give it the option of using a shelter stocked with moist moss and provide a drier cave as well. you can mist the cage heavily as well (when molting and regularly) as long as it dries thoroughly thereafter. Fungal and other problems only occur when they are confined to damp habitats. Good luck, enjoy, Frank.

Anyone care to comment? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 5:37 pm

Iíll comment.
Heís partially right. In the wild H.arizonensis will digÖ.really really deep. I donít doubt there is moisture in their spiral burrows and I donít doubt that itís that moisture that helps them molt in the wild as captive bred ones have trouble molting successfully. But the burrow is moist and the deeper you get into a burrow the more moist it gets so juv arizonensis need some sort of moisture to molt successfully. The problem is the balance as this species is prone to mycosis even in the wild. So what are we to do? Adult specimens can live full lives without any humidity. However juvs need humidity to molt but to much(such as damp moss) will surely give them mycosis. So offering some moisture such as partial misting under 1 of the hides will provide just enough humidity without complications.
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PostSubject: Re: Sphagnum moss   3/20/2013, 5:46 pm

~Abyss~ wrote:
Iíll comment.
Heís partially right. In the wild H.arizonensis will digÖ.really really deep. I donít doubt there is moisture in their spiral burrows and I donít doubt that itís that moisture that helps them molt in the wild as captive bred ones have trouble molting successfully. But the burrow is moist and the deeper you get into a burrow the more moist it gets so juv arizonensis need some sort of moisture to molt successfully. The problem is the balance as this species is prone to mycosis even in the wild. So what are we to do? Adult specimens can live full lives without any humidity. However juvs need humidity to molt but to much(such as damp moss) will surely give them mycosis. So offering some moisture such as partial misting under 1 of the hides will provide just enough humidity without complications.

Thank you for your input. Very sound input I might add. I appreciate it. Smile
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