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slylie
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Age : 39
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PostSubject: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 12:15 pm

First of all, Hello! Such a great site you guys have here and stumbling upon it solidified my decision to try keeping a pet scorpion or two.

A quick backround check: I used to collect odd aggressive marine fish and inverts including Odontodactylus scyllarus (peacock mantis shrimp), Gymnothorax fimbriatus (fimbrated moray eel), Synanceia verrucosa (Stonefish).

Unfortunately for personal reasons I had to sell everything and move half way around the world. Anyways... thats another story.

I've been lurking the boards for the past few days and trying to gather some information and get a feel for what type of setup and what type of scorpions I would be interested in getting. While I understand the site has a search function I tried my best and would be much appreciative of your experienced selves to help me out with a few I'm not so clear on.

I'll note that a shop near me has a 'red claw emp' and from research on the net is is closely related to the emp but not quite..? anyone have experience with this?

1. Which scorpion/s are right for me?
- personally, I'm not the type of collector to just make the 'minimum requirements' for an animal and see how it goes. I'm pretty anal about getting the enclosure to be so authentic the animal doesn't even realize it is being held captive (almost). I think a community setup would be fun, but not at the risk of the animals being stressed only for my enjoyment. I've heard emps are communal. So the first set of questions:
a) Are Emps Communal?
b) How many emps can be kept together?
c) Is the combination of sexes important?
d) Can a Red Claw Emp be kept with Regular Emps?
e) Can different species of Emp's be kept in the same set up and which species are suitable for this kind of community?
f) Knowing what I said above, in your experience is it more enjoyable to keep a community or a single specimen?

2. How do you 'handle' a scorpion?
- I have seen pictures of people handling scorpions and I was wondering
a) Does this stress the animal out?
b) How do you pick it up? (i.e. from behind, the tail, ect)

3. Is it recommended to buy scorpions in Juvi form? or near adult?
- My local shop has man scorpions that can fit on a nickle. Is it a waste of time to buy them at this size? I would like to be able to watch my scorpion grow but if the survival rate of juvis is low then I'd rather not take the chance.

4. What is available to me.
At the local store near me they currently have the following for sale, which do you think would make the better choice as a pet. (keep in mind if they are to be kept alone or could make it as part of a community)
a) Parabuthus Transvaalicus
b) hottentotta judaicus
c) Parabuthus Lisoma
d) Emp. Scorp
e) "Red claw emp. Scorp.

Thanks a lot! Can't wait to get started - but not rushing in.
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 1:22 pm

1)
A. Emps are VERY communal and you probably wont find another genus that is more communal than them.
B. You can keep as many emps as long as you have a big enough tank. There is some guy on youtube who has over 20 emps in a tank but his tank is too small.
C. Typically you should always have 2 females to every male, but emps are soooo communal, i wouldn't worry about it too much unless they really start fighting which is rare but still possible with males.
D. Red claws CANNOT be kept with other emperors but can be kept with other red claws. They tend to be more aggressive towards other emperors so do not house them together. They can however be bred with emperors.
E. Well emperors are all the same. There are no other species of emperors. There are however, different types of pandinus genes and i dont believe they can be kept together anyways to answer the question.
F. to me, communal tanks are much better because, this may sound gay, i always want my scorpions to have little friends and other things so they dont feel alone Lol. Short answer, communal tanks are much more enjoyable in my opinion.

2)
A. All handling stresses the animal to an extent. I handle mine when i feel the necessity but not on a daily basis. It does stress the animal.
B. Most people pick them up by there tails since most scorpions have think hardy tails. This is considered a muscle so it should be fine to handle from this point. ( Be careful if you do this, because emps are a bit flexible and can bend over backwards and grab your fingers).

3) Well if you wish to start a communal tank, i would normally suggest juvi's but if you get all your scorpions from the same pet store that are already in a group together, you could get as many as you want. As long as the ones you buy are not alone at the pet store, there shouldn't be any aggressiveness towards other scorpions.

4) Since this is being your very first exotic scorpion, i suggest that you get an Emperor. Everyone here who first started, typically starts with an emperor because they are easy to take care of, and a great way to figure things out.

Please ask any questions you may have because we will love to help you and make sure the love of scorpions continues through out the world. <3
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slylie
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 1:35 pm

Thanks Smile I'll likely go out and start getting supplies in the next few days. I was looking at the Coco-substrate stuff in the pet store... it looks really dry, and the pieces look quite big. I'm assuming you soak it first and perhaps mix it with peat moss?? or is it fine alone, for emps to dig out a burrow?

I'm pretty set on just starting with a community tank of emps, I just found the FAQ and it really does seem like a good choice since they are so easy to care for yet look so mean, even if they aren't as active as other species. Im pretty sure the shop here only has the one redclaw.

Right another question- would adding a second/third specimen to the community later be a bad idea, assuming the first would see it as an invasion?
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binksyboy3
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 1:45 pm

The guy above answered pretty much all of them, I would just like to add a few things though:

1D = There is no such thing as a red claw emp. They are just called that because they look similar. Red claws are called Pandinus Cavimanus while emperors are called Pandinus Imperator.

1E = Most people prefer communal set ups because it gives them a chance to understand how scorpions behave both individually and within a group. They stick together and protect each other like family (well, the vast majority of cases anyway)

2A = You shouldn't handle a scorpion as it causes undue amounts of stress and they CANNOT become tame. However handling once every several months for relatively short periods of time to either sort out the tank in some way or to perform demonstrations etc is fine.

2B = NEVER pick up a scorp by its tail. Either: 1) Place your hand flat on the substrate and encourage the scorpion with something else onto your hand. 2) Place a mug/cup on its side on the substrate and encourage it in before carefully pouring it onto your hand.
Once a scorpion is on your hand, it shouldn't sting you because as far as it is concerned your pink soft hand is now the ground and it wouldn't make sense for the scorp to sting the ground now would it.

3 = If I were you, then I would get adults because you can afford to make little mistakes here and there as you become more experienced in the hobby as they are a very hardy species and you won't have to worry about them molting.
The only risk is that you don't know how old those scorps will be. They might last you 5 years, they might last you 5 weeks but either way, that's what I did and I've never regretted it. (Ps I've bred and raised baby emps to almost adulthood now and I can tell you that I personally prefer adults overall).

4 = Easiest question of them all. First scorpion = Emperor. You can have as many as you like as long as there is appropriate room and a sufficient number of hides and food. Always keep a greater female to male ratio.

DO NOT start with any of these three:
Parabuthus Transvaalicus
hottentotta judaicus
Parabuthus Lisoma

Hope this helps
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binksyboy3
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 1:49 pm

With coco fibre, you leave it in water for 40 mins and then it becomes four times as big and is damp and soft. That's when you put it into the enclosure.

They come as dry compact bricks to make them lighter and easier to purchase, carry, pack etc.


You can always add another specimen to the group later on. At that time, you will need to eliminate any territory issues by mixing up the entire tank including the substrate and hides in new positions befoe introducing them all back in at the same time.

Remember, make sure you have a greater female to male ratio to minimize any problems. Someone on here has two males that are fine together but this is quite uncommon as they would usually fight frequently.
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slylie
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 2:09 pm

Thanks again for the great answers and advice. The coco fibre makes a lot more sense now, I would have bought 4 bricks if you hadn't have told me that. Laughing
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 2:53 pm

I myself only have 2 males and they are perfectly fine together. Im sure if you buy 2 males that are from the same brood, then there will be no issues.
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 6:21 pm

slylie wrote:
Thanks again for the great answers and advice. The coco fibre makes a lot more sense now, I would have bought 4 bricks if you hadn't have told me that. Laughing

lol I would say 2 bricks will give about 4 inches of substrate in a 10 gallon tank.
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 6:50 pm

Psssh give you more than that
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the lycan mikey
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 7:23 pm

lol 1 brick made more than enough for me when i did my 10 gallon...
in my 29 gallon i have 2 and a half bricks
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 7:37 pm

yeah one brick is perfect for a 10 gallon. If you do a false bottom with chips, its even better
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the lycan mikey
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 7:52 pm

i did the false bottom and still used 2 and a half bricks
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Mr. Mordax
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 9:29 pm

Pandinus cavimanus are not communal. Pandinus imperator is the most readily-available member of the genus and probably the most communal.

There are a few genera that are at least as communal a P. imperator (such as Centruroides).

"Tailing" can be useful when quickly transferring a scorpion from point A to point B. It's ok if not done regularly and only performed on robust species -- those with thin tails, such as Hadogenes, are not suited to this.

I seriously doubt anemiaffx's claim of Pandinus imperator x cavimanus, which is a bad idea in the first place.

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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/13/2010, 9:44 pm

Dude i was talking about breeding an imperator with a cavimanus... didnt say house them together...
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Mr. Mordax
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 1:30 am

That's what Pandinus imperator x cavimanus means -- it's scientific naming nomenclature for hybrids.

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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 2:51 am

Well i know a few reptile houses that have bred them among other breeds that have sold to those pet stores.
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Mr. Mordax
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 4:20 am

Until I see reliable documentation, I'm dubious of any claimed hybrids in the arachnid world. Pet shops are not reliable sources of information.

The only case I believe is someone local who attempted crossing a couple of Brachypelma spp. and got viable slings out of it. I saw the slings myself and was aware of this individual's level of experience in the hobby.

Anywho, let's not let this thread get off-topic.

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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 4:42 am

didnt say pet shop said reptile house. Those are VERY different. Just like calling a target a costco.. But like i was saying ive talked with others too who have said they have bred there male red claws with female emperors. They said they did the dance, then removed the male...

But believe what you like because your mind has no exploration.
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 4:59 am

anemiaffx wrote:
Psssh give you more than that

there are different tank dimensions, but for me, 2 bricks will give 4-4.5 inches of sub.
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 1:21 pm

is that with or without the false bottom?
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the lycan mikey
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 1:44 pm

i got a false bottom and i got like...maybe 2 inches of strate, with 2 bricks...
the other half brick was used to decorate hides and such
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 2:06 pm

should have a little bit more strate than that for the bottom. i mean most say 6 inches but i mean 4 inches is probably good enough
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 2:09 pm

I'd consider two inches a bare minimum. Six is bordering on unnecessary (though they'll still probably utilize most of it).

Anemiaffx? Don't accuse me of being narrow-minded.

People can say they did something, but it doesn't mean it happened -- and if it did, just doing the dance doesn't equate to successful breeding.
Was a spermatophore recovered?
If so, did it show signs of the sperm being discharged?
Was the female kept in isolation between molting to adult hood and the attempted hybridization?
Was she kept in isolation for at least two years afterwords to allow for any young to develop?
WERE there any young produced?

I'm sorry if I come off as skeptical, but there's a lot more barriers to creating a hybrid arachnid than a hybrid mammal.

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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 2:18 pm

anemiaffx wrote:
But believe what you like because your mind has no exploration.

Whoa hold on a minute there aFX, that was rather uncalled-for, you also negated to explore the possibility that Mike maybe right on this....

There have been some studies to suggest that naturally occurring hybridization has resulted in recently discovered species of arachnids, but until a full phynological analysis is completed, all claims remain refutable hypothesis...

Let us not shut out each other's ideas.... Very Happy

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: 30 Newbie Questions.   3/14/2010, 2:21 pm

Alex, you have a point, especially with the overlap of so many Avicularia spp. of tarantulas resulting in a scientific nightmare of potential hybrids -- but tarantulas and scorpions are like apples and oranges, and hybrids among a genus of one does not reflect on the potential for hybrids among a genus of the other.

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