odd death

so my pandinus imperator (panda) just died 3 short days ago. the odd thing was is wasn't eating any food. i had meal worms, pinhead crickets, and even tried giving it a small white mouse.

the last 3 weeks of it's life it didn't eat anything at all. it killed the mouse and left it there dead for 48 hours before i threw the mouse out. Kuzko, my other imperator, did the same thing, but he eats the meal worms and crickets normally. however, he did the same behavior on his mouse, after completely devouring a small mouse just a few weeks prior. I thought it was normal as kuzko did the same behavior panda was exhibiting.

panda seemed to die of starvation. 3 weeks seems normal for an imperator to go without eating before it's death, but i was finding the hollowed out shells of meal worms and crickets on Pamda's side of the cage (they were separated by a divider in the tank for abnormally aggressive behavior towards one-another.)

after Panda's death and before i noticed Panda had a broken leg (upon death i examined it closer) the leg socket was pretty much shattered due to an injury (probably caused by a drunken idiot my room mate was friends with at the time)

I cant tell if the feeder crickets and the meal worms were dying on their own, or from Panda eating them.

well. i fell asleep and Panda seemed healthy active and chasing down the pinheads. and i awake the next morning to panda being dead and the pinheads beginning to make a snack of him.

There is a previous post to the forum called abnormal behavior (or something along the lines) and am wondering if panda had the little "worms" or "mites" mentioned. if this is the case... how would I keep them from spreading to Kuzko (just in case this is the cause).

Kuzko is eating normally and killing in intervals for food (not wasting any of his kills since the mouse).

now, i am wondering... could the broken leg cause an infection within Panda that could have caused this as well?

I myself, yes am a drinker, but i do not cross the habit with my hobby. I leave them be and do not handle or clean their cages unless sober (responsibility and respect come before idiocy. and these creatures are normally away from human interactions unless being the stated above, feeding or occasionally handled.) but others want to try and make it a habit and sneak around me while i am asleep and night and attempt to handle them themselves (inexperienced in these creatures and immature at the practice while also lacking the respect.) even an imperator can be dangerous if handled wrong... they have very powerful claws that can rip open flesh (kuzko has attacked me out of nowhere a few times even with the proper handling. not to mention the welting, swelling stings they can inflict.)

summing everything up here. I'm confused as to the cause of panda's death. I had him a total of 3 weeks and a few odd days. he was about 5 in. long (suggesting an age of 2-4 years out of the average 7 year life pan).

I won't let him go in vain. He will be resin encased and set inside the tank with Kuzko in the next few days. He is frozen at the moment inside a container in the freezer,. He was a beautiful, glossy specimen, seemed very healthy and energetic.

Kuzko himelf is about 6-7 inches long (probably about 4-6 years old now.) so if he goes i can label it old age at this point. He is very massive and robust for an imperator as well (actually about 1 1/2 times the width of the average imperator) i would say almost 1, 3/4 in. wide at the shoulders (mayber a larger cousin? Heterometrus swammerdami?, but doesn't have the smooth chitin on the claws. maybe just a larger imperator. I don't know. could explain the violent behavior.)

however, if anyone could explain the sudden death of Panda, I would appreciate it.




P.S. on a side note. If anyone could help me. I'm looking for breeders within the united states shipping range. I am looking for a female Imperator to breed with Kuzko (or an already Gravid female), a Heterometrus swammerdami, a Hadrurus arizonensis. an Androctonus australis or bicolor, or Leiurus quinquestriatus. I have about a $35 budget if you can work with it.

I am fully prepared for the highly toxic species, the LQ's and Androctonus. No intent to handle, just to own. a 25 gallon, 1/4" thick plexyglass terrarium with a hinged, sealable lid (and extra 2-padlock security for idiot proof reasons.) 12" tongs for remodeling the terrarium, no intent to breed, and another handler, more experienced who is willing to help me.

I've nothing more than respect for these creatures and wish to convey a study in their behavior from a safe setting. $35 may be a bit low of a price range for some of them, but it's all i have to offer given expenses of bills and other inquiries. I might be able to push up to $50 if somethings settle down in my expenses; given situations.

however, when it comes to Imperator's i won't give a penny over $20 outside of shipping costs, that's no more than I've given for any Imperator I've owned (including small town and large city pet stores)

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
Can you provide info. on the conditions inside the enclosure i.e. temperature, humidity, availability of water, substrate etc etc?
An emp wouldn't die of starvation from having not eaten for 3 weeks. They can quite happily last for months without food.
5 inches is big enough for it to have been an adult so it could have been a case of old age.

As for keeping LQ's and Androctonus with mates like you have mentioned sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Don't forget that these are 2 of the most venomous animals on the planet and are capable of serious harm and in extreme cases death if you were to be stung. Keeping these in easy reach of people who have no respect for scorpions sounds like a bad idea. I would try to get to the bottom of what has happened to your emp before thinking of getting anymore scorpions.

firstly sorry for your loss

you should not feed scorpions mice, they would never eat a mouse naturally they contain calcium which scorpions do not need and would prly not be that good for them because of this.

Also have to agree with callum you cant really tell the age of a scorpion by the size we had an adult emp he was small but he died from old age about a month after getting him, if an emp is adult it wont grow any bigger

maybe it was injured by a mouse? who knows

never let your friends mess about with them, get an exo terra tank and a padlock to stop people messing with your stuff

Callum B wrote:

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
Can you provide info. on the conditions inside the enclosure i.e. temperature, humidity, availability of water, substrate etc etc?
An emp wouldn't die of starvation from having not eaten for 3 weeks. They can quite happily last for months without food.
5 inches is big enough for it to have been an adult so it could have been a case of old age.

As for keeping LQ's and Androctonus with mates like you have mentioned sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Don't forget that these are 2 of the most venomous animals on the planet and are capable of serious harm and in extreme cases death if you were to be stung. Keeping these in easy reach of people who have no respect for scorpions sounds like a bad idea. I would try to get to the bottom of what has happened to your emp before thinking of getting anymore scorpions.

thanks. it kind of saddened me having my more docile and less aggressive emp die on me.

Conditions are suitable. about 75 degrees on average. humidity, i'm not too sure, its usually very moist in the tank such as their environment in the forests. I water them regularly. their dishes are refilled usually when they get about half empty.

im hoping panda wasn't dead from old age. i had only bought him 3 weeks ago. my local pet shop picked him up at a pet show on a special order since he doesn't carry them regularly. almost seems a waste of investment if they picked me up an older scorp.

the LQ's and Bicolors, once invested in will be kept behind locked doors once I get them, which i'm now thinking of doing with Kuzko. I had Kuzko and panda in the main room as sort of a display, but the idiots who come over don't read the signs i have posted about not touching the creatures. they find it fun to want to anger them. (i mean yeah i get a giggle or 2 when kuzko attacks the stick i use to nudge him away from the corner of the terrarium so i can pick him up to clean it out.) but they are just stupid. I really hope he slices one of their fingers open. ive got a couple scars myself from him getting startled and attacking me while being held. anywho... the pet shows in the state capital here usually deal in respectable handlers and not the average hobbyists. the LQ's, A.A.'s and ABC's won't be bred for about a year after i get them anyway so I can get a lot of things taken care of first, and then it's going to take several months for a female to gestate after that as well so roughly 2 years is time to prep for with breeding (so a male from one of them or one of each in the meantime would work. preferrably a LQ seeing as I've already informed everyone of it's dangers and aggressive behavior and detoured them from even wanting to look at one.)

*~BEX~* wrote:

firstly sorry for your loss

you should not feed scorpions mice, they would never eat a mouse naturally they contain calcium which scorpions do not need and would prly not be that good for them because of this.

Also have to agree with callum you cant really tell the age of a scorpion by the size we had an adult emp he was small but he died from old age about a month after getting him, if an emp is adult it wont grow any bigger

maybe it was injured by a mouse? who knows

never let your friends mess about with them, get an exo terra tank and a padlock to stop people messing with your stuff

thanks.

Kuzko was fine after his first mouse, showed no signs of anything wrong, but i will keep that in mind and keep to giving him inverts as food (and he especially loves cicadas fresh out of their molt.)

I don't think the mouse injured him. i looked over the dead body and the base of the back leg (the socket as i call it) looked practically shattered. and he had the limp from the injury before the mouse feeding.

like i said i hope it wasn't old age, but he was getting ready for a molting when he died. his skin was lightening up and was peeling away in some spots where he had rubbed against a few of the rocks in the tank.

I'm thinking of putting locks on kuzko's tank now from all this. Soon as I find me a LQ, it's going to have a couple locks on it's tank and the tank specially built to be shatterproof. might even remove the locks from time to time to keep people away (they already stated, after being briefed of their toxicity, that if there was no lock on the cage, they aren't coming over.) might give me some peace, and the bugs too.

An average temp of 75F is rather cold for an emperor. They prefer an average temp of around 85F. Just an FYI.

I agree with Shebeen but Emps are very tolerant and I doubt this caused his death. It may have been from old age. I believe it was Bex herself who had her 1st Emp die on her shortly after purchase due to old age. You should find a method to lock your enclosure or just give your intruder an old fashion beat down