Emp substrate

has any one here had any experience with a substrate made by a company named 'pro-rep'? the substrate is named 'spider lite' its a coco fibre style bedding aimed to encourage natural burrowing, supposed to be moist etc. iwas wondedring if this was to be any good for my little emp?

That would be Spider Life, not lite.

That's exactly what I use for my Emp and my H. Spinifer.

It does retain moisture well but for burrowing it's a little fine. I'd suggest mixing it with coarse sand to help it maintain it's shape when your little'n is burrowing.

2 parts Spider Life and 1 part coarse sand worked very well for me.

Ha ha my bad! So it's not too bad a substrate then? It's reasonably priced to which is always a plus!

It's almost perfect, I'd say get it!

I'm actually using partially an orchid potting mixture that contains mostly sphagnum moss, and it works just fine. Most people suggest coco fiber, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing you can use. =)

People suggest the coco fibers because it comes from a strict dry block which cannot contain any mites or other bugs that you may bring with you when you use just potting soil. Potting soil isnt in a completely sealed container which means it will most likely have bugs among other things inside of it which its also possible to have fertilizer inside it as well which i dont believe will be so great for your bugs.

This is true. I've used potting soil before, but now I'm using mostly the sphagnum moss...

Can you post a link to the Spider Life stuff.

Coco fiber is the number one choice in this community for too many reasons. It is reasonable to purchase, comes condensed, and completely sealed. Everyone uses it so the just about every nuance is covered by 1st hand experience here including blends and most importantly there have been thousands of scorpions who've spent long prosperous lives in it under care of SF members. It can do everything that potting soil can including allowing plants to take root.

There are alternatives yes, but my recommendation goes with coco fiber.

CP I'd be a little worried about sphagnum moss holding burrows. I have some and use it for some ground cover or gluing to furniture in the viv's but have opted not to use it because of the burrowing factor. I still have a big bag in my living room and have gone through so many bricks of eco-earth since it arrived here

By all means though keep experimenting and sharing the results on the forum for the rest of use to learn from. I'm always looking alternatives to everything from tanks to furniture to substrates to false bottoms, etc.

It's made by a company called pro-rep, there a branch of peregrine live foods, I use a lot of there stuff for my geckos and beardies and have no complaints so far the site address is www.pro-rep.co.uk

Might have to email them for the list of ingredients they use. Unfortunately their site as well as the few others I just searched on would not list the ingredients but just describe what their product is for and intended to offer. What they do say sounds exactly like what you would need though. It sounds good from what I can see. I'd try a couple of the suggestions that people have offered up on ratios and mixing ingredients and see if it works for you. The two biggest things are moisture retention and how it holds for burrowing Sorry I couldn't tell much more by site, I was thinking they would tell you what the ingredients were.

iitomodachi1 wrote:

CP I'd be a little worried about sphagnum moss holding burrows.

im sure i read somewhere once that it was a bad idea to use too much moss in tanks for some reason? i dont use it in any of ours.

I've ordered a few bags of it so once it gets here I can post up a list of ingredients, well assuming that there's one on there!

231bex wrote:

iitomodachi1 wrote:

CP I'd be a little worried about sphagnum moss holding burrows.

im sure i read somewhere once that it was a bad idea to use too much moss in tanks for some reason? i dont use it in any of ours.

I've actually shredded the sphagnum moss and it holds up pretty well. I don't know what else would be a problem with it, but if you find anything, let me know! Go figure, though, I couldn't find anymore moss when I went to the store yesterday, so I just ended up getting the coco fiber. =P

Well, after using that, let us know what you think after using both

231bex wrote:

iitomodachi1 wrote:

CP I'd be a little worried about sphagnum moss holding burrows.

im sure i read somewhere once that it was a bad idea to use too much moss in tanks for some reason? i dont use it in any of ours.

Yes, pure spagnum moss is difficult for the scorp to move around in from my experience.

iitomodachi1 wrote:

Might have to email them for the list of ingredients they use. Unfortunately their site as well as the few others I just searched on would not list the ingredients but just describe what their product is for and intended to offer. What they do say sounds exactly like what you would need though. It sounds good from what I can see. I'd try a couple of the suggestions that people have offered up on ratios and mixing ingredients and see if it works for you. The two biggest things are moisture retention and how it holds for burrowing Sorry I couldn't tell much more by site, I was thinking they would tell you what the ingredients were.

It's nothing particularly complicated really, it's just regular potting soil mixed with vermiculite and chunks of orchid bark. I put coarse sand in mine to make it hold it's shape a little better.

One weird thing I've noticed about it, the orchid bark chunks seem to ermm... How can I say this, float to the top?

Are the scorps burrowing? I know mine will dig up gravel from my false bottom and I will find that at the surface. That stuff sounds like it'll work. I'm sure the packaging is sealed and the stuff is clean then too versus stuff you get from a nursery.

Yup. I have a theory about that though. I think that maybe my scorps don't like that bark stuff. Whenever I find it on top, it's always in a pile, far away from them. My H. Spinifer has completely removed any trace of it from her hide, it's all sat in a pile outside it, so she's literally just on soil and vermiculite. That's just her though, my Emp isn't that extreme.

Either way I've found that Spider Life stuff to be ideal for my Emp and my H. Spinifer. Several inches of it locks in moisture for a long time, and I guess it could hold it's shape pretty well by itself, I just put the sand in for some extra strength.

You are probably spot on with your theory as all of my spiders and scorps will remove things from their burrows/hides. It is funny because they will place stuff in the same place often I have spiders that will place their molts on top of their hides every time and others that place it in their water dish every time! Pretty cool stuff when you catch them doing something seemingly very intelligent huh?

Sadly I never see mine do anything clever. It's like a game of musical statues, they're moving until I turn round and then they freeze.



Then again, I suppose you could class that as intelligent behaviour. I've never encountered a creature other than a human that know how to play musical statues.

Yes indeed, very clever! And if you only have Emps and you see them out of their holes you are one up on everyone else I never see my AFS's unless I have to dig them up. Occasionally I'm lucky enough to have them dig a new burrow against the glass so I can see them. Usually it's a mound of the 4 scorps though and you can't make out which one you are looking at. When you do see them though oh it is amazing

He doesn't come out often, but when he does, he's doing something barmy. Like, scaling the fake plants, or chasing a locust round just to antagonize it.

My AFS literally never moves, she'll occasionally come out for a drink of water for about 10 minutes then she goes straight back in her hide.

My little desert hairy is very active. Always tunneling, or climbing the rock outcrops or just generally exploring. Quite fun to watch.

Yeah, my Hottentotta Trilineatus are pretty active. I have 5 adults now and at least 1-3 our out every night. When the females get more gravid they hide more but I still see a lot of action from them. The rest are moderately active accept for those elusive AFS
I've got 2 different species of Parabuthus on the way and hope they are a bit more active They at least are not burrowers!

I wouldn't call it intelligent behavior, rather an evolutionary advantageous instinct. The ones that didn't freeze when a potential predator turned around simply got nommed.

Mr. Mordax wrote:

I wouldn't call it intelligent behavior, rather an evolutionary advantageous instinct. The ones that didn't freeze when a potential predator turned around simply got nommed.

Way to put the logic in it and crush the romance of the bug! Very very true though! And nicely put..'nommed'!! Lolz!