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 Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)

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binksyboy3
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   5/2/2010, 7:56 am

Nice spot guys, I was about to fall into that trap as well! Razz

If it were P.Imperator, then yes you would be correct - operculum usually more accurate and you would have two females. But unfortunately, hets are not my area of knowledge.

If still unsure, go onto the "members" section at the top of the page and search for "LXDNG79" send him a PM and i'm sure he will be able to help you out with any issues concerning Heterometrus sp.
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triangulum
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   5/2/2010, 9:32 am

I am just going to keep them both, now the tables have turned and people are claiming them to be H.laoticus, and a pair.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=179587

I have also PM'd LXDNG79.

Scott
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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   5/11/2010, 7:54 pm

Sorry I came in late.... I'm pretty certain about this (but nobody's perfect) since I have these in my collections... I too once thought them to be Heterometrus laoticus but they're not....

These are Heterometrus petersii. I've enclosed pics from my archives for reference

The post-median ocular region on the prosoma of H. laoticus should have a pronounced ridge running from the median oculus to the posterior rim of the carapace without any lateral grooves prior to the mesosomal tergites. Furthermore, the prosoma a.k.a carapace of H. laoticus would be bereft (lacking) of any tubercule granulations at all i.e. completely smooth. Looking at the pics, both scorpions have minimal but nonetheless evident lateral granulations on the prosoma. Like this: -


One more prominent indicator for H. petersii is the sexual dimorphism present on the tarsus (movable finger) of the chela. The one with the broken tibia (fixed finger), is the male.

Compare the tarsus of both individuals and you will noticed a distinctively enlarged 'tooth' on the inner edge of its tarsus which is absent in that of the female.


Furthermore, the manus (meaty part of the chela before the fingers) of Pandinus imperator should be heavily granulated like this.

Your scorpions have smooth chela without any granulations.

Another thing is the size. H. laoticus are rather small in comparison to H. petersii. The thing about the genus Heterometrus is that it is HUGE!!!!! with a number of species bearing very similar physical appearances. Some species are only obviously distinguishable by sexual dimorphism in the males while the females between those species have to be differentiated by inspecting granulations of the chela, patella etc...

For future Heterometrus species identification, pls include close-up shots of the prosoma, chela, patella and telson, as these are the primary ID keys for the genus.

For more on Heterometrus species identification keys, download Frantisek Korvarik's 2004 revison of the genus Heterometrus available from his site. http://kovarex.com/scorpio/

Its in the bibliography section.... I'm quite certain there is one there for Pandinus ID keys as well but I haven't looked it up.

Its a lot of reading but strongly recommended for anyone wanting to know more about scorpions; particularly their taxanomical position i.e. species identification. It is a daunting task for anyone without a background in entomology (that would be me too) but with a little patience, I managed to crack the code and was finally able to digest the paper in its entirety. It will still take a longer while to commit it to memory ... Just kidding...

Its a must have reference for anyone who bought a scorpion from a pet store peddling reliability by simply conjuring up scientific names.... Next time ask them if they know anything about their taxanomical position and what defines them as distinct species in relation to regional distribution... watch them cream in their pants before you... lol have fun

Pandinus 'africanus'..... chiya right!!!!!! LOL
http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/cites.php
since when?

Cheers
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   5/11/2010, 9:13 pm

wow....no matter what the subject.... This guy always seems to give 110%...Blows me away with such knowledge that i always find myself reading every little bit and leaving my computer knowing that much more about these inverts... Thank you LXDNG79
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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   5/12/2010, 2:07 am

anemiaffx wrote:
wow....no matter what the subject.... This guy always seems to give 110%...Blows me away with such knowledge that i always find myself reading every little bit and leaving my computer knowing that much more about these inverts... Thank you LXDNG79

Thanks, but for me its just Arachnids, Snakes, and sufficiently music... I'm glad you appreciate my effort... But you should all know that the many sources where I accumulated this knowledge is still blowing my mind to everyday....
So as far as I'm concerned, I still have a long way to go and even more to learn... Nonetheless I'm more than happy to share what I know to those who value what I have to offer.... and don't forget... sometimes I had to double check myself to be sure I'm 'saying' it right...

Sorry, I've been away for awhile, been putting my heads in piles of journals and working on a big piece at the moment.... really HEAVY....

Cheers
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CarbonAce
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   6/1/2010, 2:02 pm

the lycan mikey wrote:
ok...im not afraid to admit when im wrong, but i might be wrong...

id wait for someone else whos knows better ...

i was just saying that the 1st pic you posted looked female to me...

and i can tell you 100% that those arent emperors...but i think you already knew that =)

(does #1 have a messed up pincher?)

Yes it does in two pictures it looks like there is the top part of a pectine is missing.

And this one;


But as you say it may only be the light but there is two peices of evidence.
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binksyboy3
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   6/1/2010, 5:40 pm

CarbonAce wrote:
it looks like there is the top part of a pectine is missing.

I think you mean top part of the chela missing. Razz

We all make mistakes.
(Pectines are the wing/feather like things underneath the scorpion used as sensory organs)

But yes, you're right, the top "finger" has broken off.
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CarbonAce
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   6/2/2010, 3:42 am

Sorry Noob in the room, I gave it ago and we all make mistakes. lol
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Trevizdabomb
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   11/11/2010, 9:51 pm

Pandinus spescies are awesome! So how dod you exactly tell if it's male or female? Question
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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   11/23/2010, 9:11 pm

binksyboy3 wrote:
CarbonAce wrote:
it looks like there is the top part of a pectine is missing.

I think you mean top part of the chela missing. Razz

We all make mistakes.
(Pectines are the wing/feather like things underneath the scorpion used as sensory organs)

But yes, you're right, the top "finger" has broken off.

The Chela consist of 2 segments with 3 main regions defined by morphological taxanomy. The bulbous 'palm' of the the chela is the 'manus.' The fixed finger which is clearly broken off in this example is the 'tibia' while the movable finger which allows the scorpion to open and close its grip... is the 'tarsus'
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reptileman140
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   3/26/2011, 10:36 pm

I dot know too much but from what I've looked up and read they bot look male just throwing my imput in again i don't really have experience with hets.
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Kweegwin
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PostSubject: Re: Pandinus Africanus (Really Pandinus Imperator)   5/25/2011, 12:46 pm

I think both are males. Deff not emps
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