I'm back... with some questions

Hello guys,

Most people probably never knew me in the first place as I was fairly quiet previously, however I registered to this forum back in 2013.
After a while of breeding reptiles I got into the scorpion keeping hobby however was forced fairly early to sell my collection due to conflicted housing during my University.

Now that I'm back i'm quite interested in becoming a rather active member on this forum, given what I've seen to be described as a recent decline.

I've recently returned to the hobby and as you can see in my signature, immediately have ordered:
Heterometrus Mysorensis 1.2.2
Hadogenes Troglodytes 0.0.3
Heterometrus Laoticus 0.2.2
Hadogenes Paucidens 0.0.2
Pandinus imperator 0.0.5
Heterometrus Cyaneus 0.0.3
Heterometrus Swammerdami 0.0.2
Protoiurus Kraepelini 0.0.2
Opisthacanthus Madagascariensis 0.0.4
Opistophthalmus Boehmi 0.0.1
Hadrurus Arizonensis 0.1.2
in order to get straight back into the hobby.

I am actually planning to setup a UK and Polish based set of breeding projects, but not for a good 12-18 months whilst I go about acquiring a rather large number of different species and colonies.  The plan is to have up to 250+ different species.

I have a few questions regarding the more venomous breeds however, though I know a local store owner that can "source" the Buthidae species his prices seem rather high compared to the usual due to him being a store owner and believing me to be less informed than perhaps I am.

I know DWA is a requirement for UK specimens, and that is easy enough for me to obtain with my local council.

1 ) I was wondering if anyone had information regarding Polish law on Scorpions, I've googled for hours to find very little info on legislation.

2 ) I'm to understand posting of Scorpions is deemed "legal" provided the specimen is not dangerous.  I was wondering how people deal with buthidae transit, given most appear to be exported from Germany.

3 ) Are there any of you that keep Buthidae and sell them?  I am particularly interested in Gravid female purchases but understand if people see this as a taboo within the hobby.  Also could a rough guide be drawn up for the varied buthidae species.

4 ) How does one pass venomous species across customs without hinderance?  Ideally a legitimate way but I know the likely answer to these questions regarding transit are: "Postage is the cheapest and most logical way, just secure the package and don't advertise what's inside"

5 ) I have in my possession courtesy of tree monitor breeding, a group of 5 x vivariums.  
These are all 3ft (Wide) x 4ft (Tall) x 2ft (Deep)
I'm currently going about adding shelving systems for these vivariums, in order to place racks of acrylic enclosures inside, with desert species up top where the higher temps are and having the bottom space of around 3ft x 1ft x 2ft for Asian forest species colonies.
This way I have the luxury of several racks as well as a colony habitat beneath, making it feel more interactive.  Was wondering what this space beneath could house in terms of numbers, though I figure it's enough room for quite a sizeable group.

6 ) Emperors appear to have gotten a lot rarer since I last checked, and I currently have 5, with someone that could supply me with another 10, which i was thinking could do well in the above mentioned habitats at the bottom of these vivariums.  Would breeding Emperors on a larger scale be a worthwhile venture in terms of demand?  I am mainly starting this project just to feed itself and break even cost wise, as opposed to making it a living as I'm earning enough with my other work.

7 ) Since the forum is a little less active, would we like some form of social media presence, if so do we need help with this?  One niche i've noticed is there doesn't appear to be a "ScorpionsofInstagram" account, something that with the right number of posts and obvious linking to a facebook group, could also encourage more individuals over to here.

8 ) Over the next few months I will be splashing out on Slings / Pairs so if you have excess scorps you'd like to sell, feel free to hit me up before you consider other places.  If you have large numbers, deals could be made.  I still have 2 Red Phase rare morph Ackie monitor lizards I need to sell to fund another £250 Scorpion buying spree, and after that I have a fair amount of cash set aside each month for purchases so a heads up.

9 ) I seem to recall GS was a big kahuna over here, and did a large number of the Caresheets / information guides.  I would like with the right amount of research and with no plagiarism to get to a stage with my collection where I'd be able to contribute to this forum in a similar manner, where needed of course.  If you happen to have pointers / advice or simple asks I'm more than happy to help out / contribute as required.

Welcome back!! I think Collin has some ideas to try and reinvigorate the forum. Facebook is what we're up against, though!

I shall have a go at answering some of your questions.........

1. Well I'm not Polish, but I'm pretty sure Poland brought in a ban, or made it very difficult to keep highly venomous/Buthidae a few years back. Have a look at www.scorpiones.pl.

2. Shipping scorpions is a grey area in the UK. It's kind of legal/allowed. As for getting stuff from Germany....whilst we're still in the EU, receiving parcels from other EU countries is trouble free. I buy a lot of stuff from German/EU guys.

3. Cough cough. Nudge nudge. Wink wink. Send me a pm.......

4. You could go by ferry to one of the big German exotics shows like Hamm and fill your car boot (trunk, for the Americans) with Androctonus spp. Drive back, declare what you have to the security at the ports, be waved through, cruise home within 24 hours and you won't have broken a law (as far as I'm aware). Once you've unpacked your boot full of Androctonus spp., housed them all in your bedroom and began at gazing your shelves full of venom you are now doing something illegal. Unless you have a dangerous wild animal licence and the relevant public liability insurance.

I highly doubt anyone in the UK has a DWA licence specifically for scorpion keeping. There are certainly some 'hot' snake keepers who also have a few Buthidae, but there aren't any serious scorpion hobbyists keeping Buthidae legally (saying that, there aren't really any serious scorpion hobbyists in the UK, anyway!). There are a fair few people keeping the odd Buthidae spp., though.

You are correct in thinking that receiving via the post what ever species you desire to keep is the most logical way to do it. Occasionally some exotics shops have a few Buthidae for sale. In nearly every case it'll be very common species, and usually the most venomous (Leiurus spp., Androctonus spp.). To me it seems that these shops aren't really interested in scorpions, and have got in a few Leiurus quinquestriatus, or whatever, for the novelty value ('look at this scorpion, it'll kill you'!). They also seem to charge the most extraordinarily high prices for them.

6. Breed emperors! It's one of the saddest occurrences in the hobby that the most popular pet scorpion has almost disappeared now that restrictions have been placed on the wild collection of them. Where did all the babies born from WC females go? Why was nobody seriously breeding them? Anyway....yes there is still a huge demand for them, and you have the added advantage that babies now sell for quite a bit of money. You're certainly not the only person talking about setting up a breeding colony of them.

7. Good idea. Now can someone who knows about social media, other than facebook, look into it haha? I'm very behind with all this stuff.

8. I've got a few things for sale and that I'm considering selling. Will send you a list soon.

9. GS' articles/caresheets were, to be honest, outstanding. How did he find the time to do it all? Please shout at any ideas you have in the suggestions section.

I'll get my Polish girlfriend to enquire on my behalf / translate some articles for me as I'll be interested to see. As I was thinking of setting up a central European Scorpion breeding store of sorts over that way, so everything would need to be above board.

As for wink wink nudge nudge, message received.

I have thought about heading over to the big shows, they will wave you through regardless of the species? I assume they would request documentation of DWA. I was informed by several friends who have kept DWA animals that you never bother with scorpions as they're too small / the cost of DWA is too much for the sake of scorpions alone. And like you said they were all Viper / Cobra breeders.

I would definitely like to be one of the very niche / few individuals serious about scorpions as a hobby and possibly even professionally as I've an opportunity to do a Masters next year in Entomology and then PhD relating to scorpions / venom would be available from there.

I will do my best to breed Emps as soon as I can get the babies powered up. I will see if i can get hold of another 20-30 if they're really as rare as they seem to be. With a bit of luck i can persuade my guy to give me his gravid female, but its a push

I scoured Instagram yesterday as you can make your pictures all pretty and nice with a few clicks, which if you had a popular hashtag which became used frequently by all scorpion forum users as its the advantage of looking over your phone at work / out and about. This could definitely aid people into moving onto the forum. Plus linked to FB = more group adds and further advertisement overall I suppose.

Will look forward to that list as and when, between now and June next year I'll be filtering large numbers of Scorps I think, depending as and when I free the funds. Rent is cheap now I've moved away from London so more money for the scorps haha

Aye i was going through a few of his earlier with the macro lense shots, something I think I'll invest in. I just want to raise / breed and contribute my own successes than simply rewording and writing up a more theory based regurgitation of text.

(Thanks for the reply, I know it must of taken a little while).

George

Wattsy wrote:

Hello guys,

Most people probably never knew me in the first place as I was fairly quiet previously, however I registered to this forum back in 2013.
After a while of breeding reptiles I got into the scorpion keeping hobby however was forced fairly early to sell my collection due to conflicted housing during my University.

Now that I'm back i'm quite interested in becoming a rather active member on this forum, given what I've seen to be described as a recent decline.

I've recently returned to the hobby and as you can see in my signature, immediately have ordered:
Heterometrus Mysorensis 1.2.2
Hadogenes Troglodytes 0.0.3
Heterometrus Laoticus 0.2.2
Hadogenes Paucidens 0.0.2
Pandinus imperator 0.0.5
Heterometrus Cyaneus 0.0.3
Heterometrus Swammerdami 0.0.2
Protoiurus Kraepelini 0.0.2
Opisthacanthus Madagascariensis 0.0.4
Opistophthalmus Boehmi 0.0.1
Hadrurus Arizonensis 0.1.2
in order to get straight back into the hobby.

I am actually planning to setup a UK and Polish based set of breeding projects, but not for a good 12-18 months whilst I go about acquiring a rather large number of different species and colonies.  The plan is to have up to 250+ different species.

I have a few questions regarding the more venomous breeds however, though I know a local store owner that can "source" the Buthidae species his prices seem rather high compared to the usual due to him being a store owner and believing me to be less informed than perhaps I am.

I know DWA is a requirement for UK specimens, and that is easy enough for me to obtain with my local council.

Glad to have you back. I wish we had more Heterometrus species over here. For the most part all we have is H. petersii. Good luck with the breeding projects.

Quote :

6 ) Emperors appear to have gotten a lot rarer since I last checked, and I currently have 5, with someone that could supply me with another 10, which i was thinking could do well in the above mentioned habitats at the bottom of these vivariums.  Would breeding Emperors on a larger scale be a worthwhile venture in terms of demand?  I am mainly starting this project just to feed itself and break even cost wise, as opposed to making it a living as I'm earning enough with my other work.

Yeah, CITES placed a ban on exporting P. imperator from Benin, Ghana, and Togo, which are where most of the scorpions in the hobby originate from. So yes, definitely breed P. imperator if you can.

Pandinopsis dictator (formerly Pandinus dictator before the horrible revision of the genus) have also recently become available, at least in the US. If they're available to you, jump on that opportunity and buy as many as you can. They're also on CITES, and they were all but unheard of in the hobby until this year.

Quote :

7 ) Since the forum is a little less active, would we like some form of social media presence, if so do we need help with this?  One niche i've noticed is there doesn't appear to be a "ScorpionsofInstagram" account, something that with the right number of posts and obvious linking to a facebook group, could also encourage more individuals over to here.

That sounds good to me. I'm going to create a facebook group soon.

Quote :

9 ) I seem to recall GS was a big kahuna over here, and did a large number of the Caresheets / information guides.  I would like with the right amount of research and with no plagiarism to get to a stage with my collection where I'd be able to contribute to this forum in a similar manner, where needed of course.  If you happen to have pointers / advice or simple asks I'm more than happy to help out / contribute as required.

Yes, GS was truly an asset to the forum, and I'm very disappointed (and more than a little irritated) that he and Dolby left like they did, and insisted on taking all of their content with them.

At some point I want to get rid off all the links to caresheets and whatnot on the ASA forum. My intention with leaving the links in place instead of simply allowing them to be deleted, was that the links would just be a temporary placeholder until our members could write up their own work to replace them. (At the time we had a lot of active members, and it wasn't fair to them to have all the information contained here completely removed.) Obviously that didn't happen.