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 H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?

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msgtmmgn
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PostSubject: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 1:33 pm

I'M NEW HERE AND NEW IN THE HOBBY OF INVERTS...
BOUGHT MY 7i H.LONGI LAST WEEK OF JANUARY THIS YEAR AND THEN JUST 2 DAYS AGO IT GAVE BIRTH WITH 17 SCORPLINGS WITHOUT EVEN MATING...

NORMAL OR RARE CASE ASIAN BLACK FOREST SCORPION BEING A PARTHENOGENESIS...?


Last edited by msgtmmgn on 4/28/2013, 2:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 2:08 pm

could have mated before you bought it
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 2:13 pm

There are no accounts of parthenogenesis with the genus Heterometrus....

What Eddy says is the most probable explanation.

Take care,


Joey
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 2:15 pm

Btw, welcome to the forum!!

If you are new, please take a moment to introduce yourself and let us know who you are:)

You can do that here
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 2:30 pm

BUT THE SELLER KEPT THE SCORP IN EACH INDIVIDUAL CONTAINER SINCE IT WAS 5i TO THE TIME I BOUGHT IT THIS JANUARY AS A 7i...

IF IN CASE IT WAS PREGNATED BEFORE I BOUGHT IT, DOES IT TAKE 4 MONTHS TO GIVE BIRTH?
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 3:42 pm

Welcome to the forum.

The seller was probably mistaken then. There are no substantiated reports of parthenogenesis in any species of Heterometrus.

And yes, the gestation period for Heterometrus can be anywhere from around 6 months to well over a year depending on the exact species and individual.

Also, please refrain from typing in capital letters. Not only is it exceedingly annoying to read, it's also against the forum rules.

Do you have any questions on the care of scorplings?

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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/28/2013, 11:59 pm

i have read the rules, does'nt say anything about posting it in all capital letters...

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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/29/2013, 12:01 am

thanks for the help, i would consider that indeed my scorp mated before i bought it.
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/29/2013, 10:01 am

It's not the first time I've heard of Heterometrus longimanus being parthenogenetic.

There were a couple of reports of Heterometrus reproducing parthenogenetically over on the venomlist. Unfortunately that forum, and its wealth of information, has now gone.

It's never been officially confirmed I don't think, but it does get reported by hobbyists from time to time. However, whether these reports are true or not........who knows?
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/29/2013, 5:26 pm

msgtmmgn wrote:
i have read the rules, does'nt say anything about posting it in all capital letters...


You probably only read the first post, not the following ones.


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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/29/2013, 5:59 pm

Scorpion19981000 wrote:
msgtmmgn wrote:
i have read the rules, does'nt say anything about posting it in all capital letters...


You probably only read the first post, not the following ones.


Weíre a little more relaxed with the rules here on SF(compared to other invert forums), but word of adviceÖ.donít tell an admin what is and isnít in the rules.
Anyways back on topic I have heard of people make claims of parthenogenesis in some Het. Species, but itís all by hobbyist and we canít verify. Unfortunately itís kinda hard to take your word on it too since youíve only had the scorp for a few months and again itís all hear-say.
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/29/2013, 11:58 pm

yup thats why i still believe that my scorp gave birth parthenogenetically because the seller really did separate each scorpion in each container when it reach 5instar till the time they were sold.

and i don't think that the seller will also be selling me a pregnant scorp, since it was their business and i believe they really separate each one because when i met them to buy one they know the attitude, eating habit and temper of each scorpion.

which means they would have knowledge if they have tried to mated the female which in turn they will not sell it so that they will have more profit when in popped.

to make it clear, will recreate the situation, by the time my scorpling reach 4i or earlier i would separate them in individual container till a female popped unmated. then i will post it again here whether it's true or not. it will not be a hearsay by then...

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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/30/2013, 5:12 am


back in the Philippines, H.longis are considered parthenogenetic since there are 'virtually' no males circulating in that market of hobby. well as long as they thrive i don't see any problems Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/30/2013, 10:53 am

I was going to suggest logically there would be no males in your brood if they are partho. So wait until they reach 3i-4i when they can be sexed and look for a male. It's not that I don't believe you but the place you bought them from could have easily lied to you. Or accidentally housed them together once for cleaning or something and had no knowledge that the scorpion had bred.
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/30/2013, 4:18 pm

~Abyss~ wrote:
I was going to suggest logically there would be no males in your brood if they are partho. So wait until they reach 3i-4i when they can be sexed and look for a male. It's not that I don't believe you but the place you bought them from could have easily lied to you. Or accidentally housed them together once for cleaning or something and had no knowledge that the scorpion had bred.

Sounds like a plan. If the scorpion in question has really reproduce parthenogenetically then you should expect all the young to be female, as Eddy has stated. However, although unlikely, it is possible that you could end up with an all female brood from a normal mating, so this by no means certifies 100% that the young were produced parthenogenetically. To prove that your H. longimanus is capable of parthenogenesis you will first of all have to check if all her babies are female. If they are, then you'll have to raise them through to maturity and await a ''virgin'' birth. If this occurs then you will have proven that Heterometrus longimanus are parthenogenetic, to yourself Laughing .

The next (and probably much harder) challenge would be convincing the experts that this really is the case. I don't know how you would go about doing this, but if I was in your shoes my first task would be to meticulously document everything that happens with the brood, from birth to maturity, to provide as much evidence as I could to convince the experts.
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/30/2013, 6:32 pm


could they be sexed already after molting to 3i? i wanna conduct this experiment as well Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/30/2013, 6:55 pm

I suppose so if you have something that can clearly show pectines. Althought sexual dymorphis might not show yet I'm not entirely sure when it becomes apperent but I know they don't need to be mature .
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   4/30/2013, 7:26 pm


okay good luck with me then lol..

but i wanna try this one out
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/1/2013, 5:49 am

well i'm not challenging anyone.

just wanted to know if the heterometrus can really have a parthenogenetic scorp.

does 3i or 4i can be mated already?

and i don't need tons of documentation just to prove if a heterometrus species can have a parthenogenetic scorp, since i just wanted to see if there is or can have that kind of species in heterometrus class...

my experience would be enough to convince me if indeed there such thing, i also don't need to convince anyone since i'm not getting anything out of it.

just trying to share my idea and my experience and my curiosity...
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/1/2013, 6:23 am

msgtmmgn wrote:


my experience would be enough to convince me if indeed there such thing, i also don't need to convince anyone since i'm not getting anything out of it.

You could be helping the scientific community and the scorpion hobby if you did a documented study...
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/1/2013, 10:38 am

will the newly born scorplings shed its shells to become 2i?
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/1/2013, 10:49 am

I agree it's best if you document this if indeed it was a partho scorp. No they can't be mated at 3i-4i, I had said "Sexed" as in see if they are female or male. And yes, the scorpling will molt soon to become 2i
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/1/2013, 3:21 pm

That is why I said you would prove it ''to yourself''. And yes it would be an interesting project to embark on even if it is just to prove to yourself that this species does reproduce parthenogenetically.

However, if you did discover this, it would be valuable information that should be documented and shared with the scientific community/scorpion hobby. You may get your name in scientific journals which would be great for your CV/resume'........ ACHEIVMENTS: Grade 2 in swimming, Level 3 first-aid qualification, discoverer of parthenogenesis in Heterometrus longimanus Laughing. You'd also get lots of 'brownie points' from other scorpion keepers if you persevered with the project (not sure if 'brownie points is just a UK saying, but it is a good thing lol). I'd be very interested reading any info. you shared about what happened.

Besides, no one would take you seriously if you claimed you had proved this occurred unless you could show some solid documentation of it.

Good luck with it if you decide to try and find out Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/2/2013, 11:30 pm

yup that's my point why i don't want to go thru any documentation of whatsoever, anything i prove will not be taken up seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: H. Longimanus parthenogenesis?   5/3/2013, 12:09 am

Seems like a cop out. Take the babies from this and keep them individually keeping pictures and show the world. You're keeping scorpions and have a camera already just combine the two.

OR

Send these babies out individually to skeptics and let them keep them and document it. I'm surprised none of the scientist that says they are %100 not a parthenogenesis species have never collected a sample of the Philippines genetics.

BEST YET

Send me a few and I will raise them individually and document it. (I like this option the best)
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