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 Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself

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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 3:30 am

Hey guys I bought a Heterometrus Spinifer late last year and about January its left pedipalp appears to be handicapped

I totally can't close it or move it

It just feeds normally using the other working arm

But now I noticed that it actually is gripping its handicap arm n stinging it

It isn't normal right?

What should I do? cuz it really looks bothered by the handicapped arm now

Should I use a scissors or something to cut off the handicapped arm?

Pls help ASAP

Edit :

Here is a picture of it trying to 'get rid' of its handicapped arm

http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4997/img20130406154720.jpg#.UV_SR5OL_1M
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Bayss
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 3:54 am

Don't cut it off...that will cause more problems, or possibly kill it as it could bleed out. Scorpions are immune to their own venom. It does sound like it is causing some irritation based on the behavior you describe.

Post a picture of the affected pedipalp if you can. Is it sub-adult or adult? What are the conditions in the enclosure? Temperature, type of substrate, is the substrate moist/dry, are their any tiny white bugs in the substrate?
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 5:41 am

Its an adult

Temperature about 27 degree celcius

Type of substrate dirt and coconut fibre

I usually just pour a bit of water on the substrate and the water bowl

Nope no bugs

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/img20130406173642.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/img20130406173553.jpg/
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Kale
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 6:33 am

I had an emp that her pedipalp also would not open. As if it was seized up. She did live to be be an old woman mating with my male. Thus giving me a nice little brood but she acted as if the seized pedipalp never bothered her. She ate fine and actually used her problemed claw to hold down prey and grasping it with the working one. Keep an eye on it to see if any other problems arise. In the picture by just looking at it, it looks ok. By your scorpion grabbing it, you never know because scorpions do odd things. Just continue to monitor it.

Also. Your substrate seems not to be the correct type and appears to dry. That is cocofiber but you need the compressed cocofiber. This what I use http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001CY4ELE/ref=mw_dp_mpd?pd=1 it should be damp and you need a few inches of it for proper humidity and so it can burrow if it wants. Try that and see how things work out. Could be a humidity problem.
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Bayss
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 6:33 am

It does look like it had some damage to that joint in the past. The conditions in the enclosure sound good. I'm not experienced with Heterometrus, but I sent a message to another member who is. He or one of the others who knows this species will comment. Good luck!
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Tongue Flicker
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 7:04 am

the owner judging from his location, SEA could possibly mean South-east Asia. if so, the temperature in that region in this time of the year would be more or less 98-105 degrees F. he won't be having temp and humidity problems there but the scorp maybe dehydrated.

from the looks of the picture it does seem bothered by it. if it had a bleeding injury in that part before then that pedipalp was probably infected and as a result the scorpion is trying to indeed get rid of it (much like a human if you have an infected limb that needs to be amputated).

but even so, has this been happening everyday? don't try to do anything rash just yet. maybe the next molting can help. remember that nature has it's own way of healing and regenerating a lost pedipalp is not one of it so better leave it as it is for now and keep us posted.. Smile
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/6/2013, 11:20 am

Well when it feeds it will just use the working arm to grab the prey not like Kale's emp which uses the broken one too

Exoticvirus
Yeap you're right I'm from South East Asia like I stated in the location section

I'm not sure about past injuries but I can confirm that when I bought it both pedipalps are working fine

It's already an adult so there won't be another molting , right?

I just noticed it today so I'll just observe for another more like you suggested

Will keep you guys updated !

Thanks for the help anyway
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Tongue Flicker
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/7/2013, 2:08 am


well chances for achieveing an ultimate molt (8th instar) are usually higher near the places of origin. i have a condo unit back in the Philippines and my sister had success with lychas spp. molting to 8i there.. must be the weather. just keep your hopes up and stay optimistic about it Smile
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/7/2013, 7:11 am

Woaaaah
didn't know that
thanks for the information =D

Okkay~ hope it won't bother it too much
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Tongue Flicker
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/7/2013, 8:11 am

no pro.. good luck with your h.spinifer Smile
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/7/2013, 11:37 am

Well today its just motionless sitting there~

Hope it will continue like this and not hurt itself =D
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Scorpion19981000
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/7/2013, 12:03 pm

Actually I don't believe that Heterometrus species can reach 8i.

Now, it looks to me as if it's actually trying to pull the damaged limb off...so it's clearly bothering the scorpion.


From here you have two options.

1. You can leave it completely to the scorp. This is the best option unless it becomes blatantly obvious that the scorp can't handle it by itself, which leads us to....

2. If things get really bad with the limb, (if it's interfering with eating, drinking, movement, the scorp is trying to remove it but can't, the scorpion's not doing well in general, etc.) then it may be necessary to amputate the limb.

Basically you just cut it off with scissors at a joint. Note that this is risky. Ideally if you do this, the limb is hollowed out, dry, and dead...so little to no bleeding. On the other hand, if it's not, you must stop the bleeding yourself. Cornstarch, petroleum jelly, and small pieces of tissue on the wound should stop the bleeding. You may want to keep it in an ICU for a few days after the amputation to ensure that the scorp is properly hydrated and so that there is minimal chance of infection.

I should say that if you have a problem doing this, but still feel that it's necessary for the scorp, ask someone else to do it.


Also, if the scorp removes the limb itself, follow the procedure as if you had amputated the limb.


Anyway, odds are your scorp will be fine either way, they're a lot tougher than we sometimes give them credit for.

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Tongue Flicker
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/7/2013, 3:05 pm

Scorpion19981000 wrote:
Actually I don't believe that Heterometrus species can reach 8i.

Now, it looks to me as if it's actually trying to pull the damaged limb off...so it's clearly bothering the scorpion.


From here you have two options.

1. You can leave it completely to the scorp. This is the best option unless it becomes blatantly obvious that the scorp can't handle it by itself, which leads us to....

2. If things get really bad with the limb, (if it's interfering with eating, drinking, movement, the scorp is trying to remove it but can't, the scorpion's not doing well in general, etc.) then it may be necessary to amputate the limb.

Basically you just cut it off with scissors at a joint. Note that this is risky. Ideally if you do this, the limb is hollowed out, dry, and dead...so little to no bleeding. On the other hand, if it's not, you must stop the bleeding yourself. Cornstarch, petroleum jelly, and small pieces of tissue on the wound should stop the bleeding. You may want to keep it in an ICU for a few days after the amputation to ensure that the scorp is properly hydrated and so that there is minimal chance of infection.

I should say that if you have a problem doing this, but still feel that it's necessary for the scorp, ask someone else to do it.


Also, if the scorp removes the limb itself, follow the procedure as if you had amputated the limb.


Anyway, odds are your scorp will be fine either way, they're a lot tougher than we sometimes give them credit for.

not just Heterometrus, 8i scorp species are not unusual or a rarity in the Philippines. not to mention, 5th instars giving birth hehe. don't know how or why exactly Smile
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 5:21 am

Uh oh.......... Today I came back from school and take a peek inside

And I found little flies ! I opened the cover and there was a stinky smell

The handicapped arm is now stretch out plus there's a brown stain on the joint


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/img20130408171300.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/img20130408171220.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/img20130408171158.jpg/

Suggestions please , should I do as Scorpion19981000 suggests either leave it or make a surgery >.<

It really is bothering it so maybe helpit out?

Or just leave it a few days and see how it progresses?

Edit :

the arm is really twisted now , like 180 degrees

Now that I see it is kind of serious now

http://www.gophoto.it/view.php?i=http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9469/img20130408171300.jpg#.UWKn8JOL_1M

The part where the yellow circle is seems infected and its really smelly

Anyone please reply ASAP after seeing this
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 10:17 am

I would remove it as the infection could spread and kill your scorpion outright

But wait for others to comment as well
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 11:05 am

There's now white fluid

Is that the blood?

I've searched a bit and found that scorpion's blood are normally light blue

I can just remove the arm right?

It just seems to hang there and there are flies

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/img20130408230438.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/img20130408230447.jpg/

Edit :

As I just finished typing this post it successfully broke the arm off

Now there is still some white fluid

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/img20130408232222.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/img20130408232237.jpg/


Should I dry it with small pieces of tissue as Scorpion19981000 suggests or just let it dry on its own?


Last edited by zlyng0801 on 4/8/2013, 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 11:07 am

Probably haemolymph and infection

Did you cut it off?
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 12:00 pm

Put some cornstrach on that ASAP to stop the bleeding. You need to get rid of the flies so change the substrate and you might want to try putting the scorpion in a separate container with moist paper towels and heat for a few days. If the scorpion is bleeding or losing any fluid try to stop it with some pieces of tissue and continue to apply the cornstarch as needed.
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 6:23 pm

~Abyss~ wrote:
Put some cornstrach on that ASAP to stop the bleeding. You need to get rid of the flies so change the substrate and you might want to try putting the scorpion in a separate container with moist paper towels and heat for a few days. If the scorpion is bleeding or losing any fluid try to stop it with some pieces of tissue and continue to apply the cornstarch as needed.

+1.

Definitely put some cornstarch or small bits of tissue on there ASAP. Petroleum jelly (vaseline) works as well.

And above all make sure it's hydrated.


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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/8/2013, 6:33 pm

You know I'm sorry this happened but at the least we got some interesting notes on scorpion behavior.
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zlyng0801
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/9/2013, 4:14 am

Thanks a lot guys the bleeding stopped as I done exactly as suggested

Is it okay to have some dirt on the wound?



~Abyss~ wrote:
You know I'm sorry this happened but at the least we got some interesting notes on scorpion behavior.


No need to be sorry it wasn't expected =D

Is it only me in this forum whose scorpion lost its arm? o.O
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Yames
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PostSubject: Re: Handicapped H.Spinifer hurting itself   4/9/2013, 9:55 am

I had my 5 or 6 i emp loose one of his legs in a molt. He presented in his hide with a few tiny white bugs running around so I knew something was rotting. I cleaned up the enclosure looking for cricket bits but didn't find any. I didn't want to move him too much as he was starting to molt. After the molt I found his one leg didn't come with him and those tiny white bugs I saw were gone. I assume they were eating the dead tissue then died out after they ran out of food too. He is doing just fine now.
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