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 Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid

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Yames
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/25/2012, 12:59 am

I've run my temp and humidity probes into tiny cord sized holes to get in the box real time stats. As of right now in my cup they are 30.1 C and %86 humidity. What do you think?
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/25/2012, 1:05 am

Ideal thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/26/2012, 10:07 pm

Hey GS how many days does it take to go from new born to first molt? I opened the enclosure today and found that I'm down to 10 live guys and it seems that some white fuzzy mold that I couldn't see until I opened the lid had formed on those two dead ones. But sadly a 3rd one had gotten tangled in the fuzzy mold. it's pretty still but I don't want to risk tossing it out if it's just slowing down because of a pre molt. I also don't wan to leave dead specimens in the enclosure to possibly create a more sever mold issue.

As it is now the ones that are suspiciously still have been sectioned off about 1/2 inch from the ones that are lively.

Any suggestions from anyone?
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Yames
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 1:20 am

I started to try and look up the answer to my question and I'm finding a 10 day estimate. But I'm not sure if that applies to big ole forest scorps or desert or all of the above. So anyone with a bit of knowledge for desert guys 1st to 2nd instar and 2nd to 3rd and so on I would really appreciate it. Not that I'll hold ya to it I just would like a general idea of the rate they will grow at.
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 1:32 am

Yes, remove any dead ones from the enclosure to prevent molt and mites.

Can't help you with the molt times for Lq, each specie is pretty different. Some scorpionidae can take 2 weeks, while some buthids molt in 3 days.
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Yames
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 11:28 am

Apparently I just need to have a chat with DolbyR about it to make my guys understand that I mean business. I checked the state of my union this morning at 11:20 Am and 7 of my little guys have molted over night. 2 are stuck to each other and a few left around molts which may be causing them some difficulty. I will monitor them for 4-6 hours and help if needed but the other 7 did it themselves in under 8 hours so that is the benchmark.

So without further procrastination I give you 2nd instar Lq's


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Yames
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 12:06 pm

So I've been looking into housing now for these 7 to potentially 9 specimens. I have deli cups but they seem big and bulky to hold. I really like that tackle box method GS showed in the AA forum.

What kind of substrate are we recommending? I have some zoo med Sahara which is nice to me. So zoo med Gobi orange sand which seems fluffy and half full of icing sugar as I can't think of a better way to describe it. It makes dust clouds which smell sweet. I'm pretty sure i hate it. I have excavator clay and finally the 2 deli cups worth of sand and earth mix the dealer had my Lq and P.li living on. What should I use in my tackle box set up?

What are my temps and humidity goals for 2nd instar Lq's? And I'm planning a pin head feeding in about 5 more days does that sound right?
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 2:43 pm

The tackle-box method is great in terms of raising scorplings up fast with regular feeding, weekly light mist and a stable temperature. Substrate wise, normal play sand would suffice.

My recommendation would be using pure coco fibre/peat dry substrate. While raising these juvenile desert scorpions from 2-5.instar, always keep at least 1/4 of the substrate surface slightly moist. I love that there's great color contrast between dry/wet coco fibre/peat substrate. Easy tracking on water provisiong for us keepers.

Fyi, LQs are one of those desert scorpions which would be contented with just hiding below a piece of slate/ bark, with pure sand substrate of 3-5cm (minimum requirement).

However, If you can afford to allocate more space e.g. bigger enclosures like individual deli-container/ kritter keeper (double tanked recommended), go ahead and test it out with clay/sand mixture, or deeper substrate. They are good/fun to have but not a need, so to speak.

Estimated, these LQ babies should be ready to feed between 7-12 days after their successful molt to 2.instar.

Congrats for a great job saving majority of these 1.instar LQ babies! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 3:01 pm

Thanks GS as we speak they are in sand with 1 corner getting a few drops of water to be noticeably moist. I've run my probes again into one of the enclosures and it's running 30.1 degree C and %67 humidity. Is that all good?
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 3:27 pm

Ok it's picture time again.


You can see here the moist corner






You can see how the first and last pics they are sitting right in the location I eye dropped the water in. How do you guys go about misting the sides? My mister would be a fire hose to these pour little guys and I can't control it that well. I would however like to get some droplets on the side of the enclosure to allow for drinking.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/27/2012, 4:54 pm

Congrats man. They are looking great!
I use a small mister for my slings which fires a lot less water and in a smaller area than the one I use for my adult scorpions and snakes. Any gardening shop should have a wide variety of sizes.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 2:34 am

Be careful with when feeding later on.
I tried the tackle box once and never again.
I ended up having 4 lq crawling out of it really fast.

And they can dig under the bars, atleast the ones ive tried.

Good work so far:-)
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 2:38 am

It's funny you mention that I was thinking that myself when I looked at the material. I though I bet they can climb this real easy. So I'm working on some deeper deli cups with screen lids for when they get a little bigger. But for now they aren't able to climb up the dividers.

Edit: Actually in pic 1 you can see the future deli cups enclosure prototype. I've named it the GS 3000.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 3:12 am

Hehe nice name :-)

Nah they probly wont climb in a while.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 3:57 am

Yames wrote:
Thanks GS as we speak they are in sand with 1 corner getting a few drops of water to be noticeably moist. I've run my probes again into one of the enclosures and it's running 30.1 degree C and %67 humidity. Is that all good?
It's good Smile
Do note that when the temp is kept constant at this level, the substrate might dry up easily, keep a close watch on how fast the moist corner dries up and you may adjust your misting interval accordingly.

It's safer to use those with fix partition so that the scorplings will not find any bulging edges to aid in their escape plan.

And of course, the deli-container might suit you better in your scenario. I believe you would prefer more room for specimens which mean alot to you.

E.g. I had my rare Andro sp scorplings raised in deli-container which i'll have some room to place a hide and a small bottle cap with pebbles for drinking. Container's lid is wire meshed for unrestrictive air ventilation.
These specimens will then be shifted to glass tank enclosures at adulthood.

The tackle box method may be more suited for mass breeding of a larger brood which you will not feel bad with a few accidental losses.

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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 11:38 am

I like the tackle box right now because I know they are all getting the same humidity and heat levels. deli cups will be less consistent. Some will undoubtedly be closer to the heat lamp,

So in your AA's or any other desert specimen what are the right temp and humidity for 2nd to 3rd instar? I'm looking at 31.3 C and %75 humidity right now. I added some coco fiber in the form of exo terra plantation soil. It's holding humidity higher then sand alone. I'm getting the sense that from 1st I kept the RH at %85 now 2nd I've dropped it %10 to %75 would the 3rd instars go down to %65 and so on till adulthood? Or should I lower it in the 60's already?

As a complete change of topic with all of this micro managing of RH I'm beginning to think I'd like to try getting some 1st instar Hadrurus slings and break them into groups to try to isolate the correct humidity to raise them from 1st to full grown. I"m surprised no one has mastered that yet as it seems to be purely humidity related?
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 12:10 pm

Yames wrote:
As a complete change of topic with all of this micro managing of RH I'm beginning to think I'd like to try getting some 1st instar Hadrurus slings and break them into groups to try to isolate the correct humidity to raise them from 1st to full grown. I"m surprised no one has mastered that yet as it seems to be purely humidity related?

Yames, let's start a new thread on this topic. I have a few thoughts on the subject but would rather not dilute the current (excellent) discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/28/2012, 12:41 pm

lead the way. I'll follow.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/29/2012, 10:36 am

Congrats Yames! Great job in saving those Lq's!
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/29/2012, 12:29 pm

Thanks DolbyR I'm at 7 and they are all healthy and running about. I was in the process of taking some more pictures but the battery on my camera died so it's charging right now.

I've decided to name them after all you guys who've helped. So in the future I can be all "dang it that jerk GS tried to escape at feeding time again, man he's a pain in my rear" and it will make me laugh.

so with out further ado:

1. GS
2. DolbyR
3. Shadowfoot
4. Bakke84
5. Toidy
6. Hauser
7. CactusHugger

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shadowfoot
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/29/2012, 2:19 pm

Watch out. Shadowfoot will be one lazy *ss scorpion. He will eat all your food from the munchies he gets and won't do what you want him to do.
Thanks for naming one after me Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/31/2012, 2:00 pm

So i've taken a few more pictures. I tried to feed them last night with banged up pin heads that couldn't fight back and everyone ran away from and avoided them all night. So I guess it's too early to feed.

I also noticed that when I take Macro pics I like to have my flash on but it's too bright by itself so I put a small piece of a post it note over the flash. The problem was the post it was neon green so all my pictures looked green washed. So I replaced it with a white piece today and am amazed by the better light quality I got.

So here are some more pics.






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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   11/1/2012, 9:07 pm

I thought I just posted but nothing has shown up yet. So if this become some kind of weird double post I apologize in advance.

I have great news. I have been tossing in pin head crickets my first attempt was on Wed and no one went for them. It seemed like they were too scared. On the PM advice from Hauser I tried on day 5 which is tonight. 3, 5, and 7 are eating as we speak. Oh sorry you know them as Shadowfoot, Toidy and Cactus Hugger.

It's interesting to me that the 3 specimen on the most inside compartments are advancing the fastest. I assume then received a small amount more heat and when maintenance was performed their internal compartments cooled down at a slower rate then the external ones. So keeping the heat constant and warm seems optimal. I kept them 85 to 91 degrees F day and night. I wonder if these 3 also benifted because their internal compartmets were also kept away from ambiant room light and day time light. I will be looking into this with future broods. So on to the pictures.



Oh and look at this I found a picture that proves me wrong. I'll stand by the idea that 1,3,5,7 got more heat becasue they are pressed up agianst my emps tank. But natural light would find it's way in where as in 4 and 6 they would get less dayligt. 1 and 2 get daylight but are alos on the ends and so would be slightly cooler and cool down fster during maintenance.

Any thougth on the effect of daylight cycles in scorpion development?
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   11/1/2012, 10:48 pm

I think it's all a heat game. #1 and 2 are the only ones not to kill or start eating yet. I think it's a good lesson for people using the tackle box method to avoid using the outside corner positions if space allows.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   11/4/2012, 11:58 am

So now from 2nd instar I'm seeing the growth rate change drastically from specimen to specimen.

Look at #4 here aka Bakke84 he's looking ready for 3rd instar


And now #2 lil DolbyR leaving half eaten crickets lying around looking all tiny and not ready to molt.


Their colors are really coming in nicely. No one looks like a clear grain of rice anymore.
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