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 Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid

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Yames
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PostSubject: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 8:08 pm

OMG guys I'm loosing my [hopscotch] here. My Lq was gravid. I didn't even guess from the pics I had. I tried to toss a cricket in the tank today and noticed she hasn't eaten since Wed the 17th. After a tussle with the cricket under her hide I noticed a tiny white baby crawling on the sand. So I quickly pulled the cricket and am watching to see it she gets back on mommy. I'm going to take some low level light pics so as not to disturb her. But I need to record some of this.

My hands are shaking as I try to type this. I'm probably gonna drop my camera.

I repeat I'm losing my [hopscotch] over this.


Last edited by Yames on 10/23/2012, 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 8:21 pm



You can see a bit of tail and two tiny white bodies. I can't find much on Lq broods. If these guys didn't make it onto moms back because of the cricket will they make it? Help me GS you're my only hope.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 8:46 pm

So I can see 3 in the sand now and none on moms back. Did I wreck this by trying to feed her? In my defense I didn't even suspect gravid. I was thinking another molt some day in the future.

So since I can't find the info are LQ's in the family that are born prego? Or can they self "knock up" to use the scientific name for it?

So it's been about an hour now and I see that she's up to 5 babies and I'm pretty sure she's eating one. I'm not seeing any on her back so I'm also starting to wonder now how long slings take to hop onto mommy? Do they hang out by themselves at first then move onto her?
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 9:26 pm

@Yames wrote:
So I can see 3 in the sand now and none on moms back. Did I wreck this by trying to feed her? In my defense I didn't even suspect gravid. I was thinking another molt some day in the future.
Not the best thing to do but it's not your fault since you didn't know she's was with her kids.

@Yames wrote:
So since I can't find the info are LQ's in the family that are born prego? Or can they self "knock up" to use the scientific name for it?
I believe the word is parthenogenetic.
It simply refers that a mature specimen of certain species are able to impregnate themselves without having the need to mate. But, Leiurus quinquestriatus are NOT known to be parthenogenetic.

@Yames wrote:
So it's been about an hour now and I see that she's up to 5 babies and I'm pretty sure she's eating one. I'm not seeing any on her back so I'm also starting to wonder now how long slings take to hop onto mommy?
The actual process of birthing from start to finish may be different between specimens and species. The fastest i have experience is about one to two hours, slowest is up to two days.

@Yames wrote:
Do they hang out by themselves at first then move onto her?
Usually, if the "cradle stance" (sample picture below) was put in place correctly by the scorpion mom, the babies would crawl to her back and lay down there. When more babies tries come onboard the back of the scorpion mom, the ones which are already there will reposition themselves to make room for their siblings. However, there are times when a baby was accidentally dropped onto the substrate or may be abandoned by their mom and left on the substrate.

As for the babies which are on the substrate, i wouldn't suggest you picking them up and put them on mom's back as it can be stressful for the mom. At times, once the babies are on the ground and NOT on mom's back, they may be already in a "disoriented mode", even if we were to place them back on mom's back, they may unknowingly crawl down again (may happen).



Nothing much you can do now, except to.. not to anything to stress her out. Keeping her in low light is a good choice.
By the way, how many crickets are in there? Are you able to wait for a chance to take them out with tongs when are they exploring at the sides of the tank?

You may consider the following method:

[HOW TO] Incubate 1.instar Scorpling


Last edited by GS on 10/24/2012, 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo edited)
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 10:43 pm

I read it over and I was going to start opperation save those two but now I see lots of babies under her and I figure I did enough damage from the start. So I'm going to block her up in darkness on all 5 sides of her tank and let nature run it's course.

It was only that one cricket earlier they are cricket free now.

should i look for loners in the morning or are ones that didn't make it on her back straight from the birth going to try later? How long should I let nature take it's course before I try to save the ones that were abandoned?
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 11:04 pm

@Yames wrote:
I read it over and I was going to start opperation save those two but now I see lots of babies under her and I figure I did enough damage from the start. So I'm going to block her up in darkness on all 5 sides of her tank and let nature run it's course.
Good thinking.

@Yames wrote:
It was only that one cricket earlier they are cricket free now.
That's good to hear.

@Yames wrote:
should i look for loners in the morning or are ones that didn't make it on her back straight from the birth going to try later? How long should I let nature take it's course before I try to save the ones that were abandoned?
Let nature take it's course. I would give it minimum 8-12 hours to complete her birth.
After that, you may do a subtle check and if it's within your reach (while not disturbing the scorpion mom with her brood), you may rehouse the abandoned kids. My 2cents.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/23/2012, 11:10 pm

Perfect 8-10 is at least a plan of action. I just feel so helpless and in the dark here literally. (LOL but not really lol) I'll stop being the giant man who lurks about disturbing my little gems.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 12:59 am

All the best. If there's other questions, just shoot. We are all eagerly watching this thread to see if there's assistance needed hug up
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 3:28 am

GS wrote:
All the best. If there's other questions, just shoot. We are all eagerly watching this thread to see if there's assistance needed hug up

+1

Good luck Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 4:10 am

Good luck dude!
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 8:46 am

Ok 8;30 am 14 slings present 0 on moms back. So I help her away with a ruler and carefully spooned out all the babies. 3 of them are for sure dead and shriveling. a few of the other ones are slow and Ive got a few quick ones.

I wet the paper towel here and put them all on it. Is this too wet for a desert species? now they are all together in a deli cup in my HA's large tank to maintain a 80 degree temp out of direct IR bulb light. anything else i need to do or is it hail mary time? I'm thinking I'll keep them together for now. If one want s to eat another or just plain drain his life force to be stronger since they don't eat at this stage I'm fine with it.

Any surviving specimens would be fantastic to me.

ARg this is so frustrating. All I've been thinking about since I got my scorps is breeding projects and I missed a gravid female and messed with her birthing. I'll be honest I feel like an absolute failure here.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 8:58 am



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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 9:01 am

Where I live it's almost 9 am and I'm working on being super late for work. So I'll rush home after work and check to see what's happening. If you guys think of anything send me a pm which I will get on my phone. Actually I'll probably be on the boards a few times today making sure no one left me a msg with that one key piece of information I've been missing.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 9:09 am

Actually, it's best not to do the incubation on a paper towel and leave it on sand. The sand contributes nothing to a successful molt for these, in fact, there's a concern of contaminating the babies.

Something like this will be ideal:


Maybe it's just me being overly conscious.
It might not be good to shift the babies again...

@Yames wrote:
I wet the paper towel here and put them all on it. Is this too wet for a desert species?
As long as it's moist to the touch and not soaking wet, it will be ideal. Usually, juvenile instar of desert species are able to tolerate slightly higher humidity than we assume.

@Yames wrote:
now they are all together in a deli cup in my HA's large tank to maintain a 80 degree temp out of direct IR bulb light. anything else i need to do or is it hail mary time?

Check on the moisture level of the paper towel once every day or so. If it starts to dry out, simply mist the side of the enclosure and the water will seep in slowly, remember not to get any mist on the scorplings.

@Yames wrote:
I'm thinking I'll keep them together for now. If one want s to eat another or just plain drain his life force to be stronger since they don't eat at this stage I'm fine with it.
It's fine to keep them together for now. In fact, even after their successful molt to 2.instar (which should happen about the same time for all the babies) they can still be kept together up to the point when they are about to reach premolt towards 3.instar in you want (very little risk of cannibalism as long as they are well fed as a group), as that's when the vulnerability of a freshly molted scorpion kicks in, especially when the molting gap between specimens has higher chances to get drifted apart.

@Yames wrote:
ARg this is so frustrating. All I've been thinking about since I got my scorps is breeding projects and I missed a gravid female and messed with her birthing. I'll be honest I feel like an absolute failure here.

Some encouragement for you. Vid by xxxMrAwesomexxx.


Parabuthus transvaalicus not being a good mother


Last edited by GS on 10/24/2012, 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 9:21 am

Hey GS... Memeber when I said I was working on being super late then you posted a 5 min video??? Now I'm 5 more min late.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 9:23 am

gigglegiggle
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 2:31 pm

Nice P.T video GS, seen it before but it still is nice Smile

Love the p.t scorp, some of mine doesnt even use their sting.
They just grab it and starts eating, so narly hehe Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 7:05 pm

Ok guys update. I got home from work and they are still alive and kicking on the paper towel. It was starting to dry out a bit so I added a few drops of water to the corner to keep it moist. then I put the whole deli cup back in with my HA. I've decided he is their new guardian.

How long till 1st molt which will make them 2nd instar? And after their first molt you are recommending individual cups? And what for substrate? Still misting the side of the cup every day or less frequently?
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 7:30 pm

Still a few more days to go before 2i. Individual is preferable and sand would be fine for 2i. Mist a lot less, once a week is enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 8:40 pm

wish you all the luck man. happened to me with my liosoma before. sadly, just 1 survived..
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 9:31 pm

@ Toidy: 3 months ago I didn't own a scorpion. So if I can save even 1 with this worst case scenario I've been tossed into. Well I'll take that as a glowing victory.

And thanks everyone for your kind words.


Last edited by Yames on 10/24/2012, 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forogot something)
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 9:59 pm

I did a count and I have 14 moving slings and 2 dead heads in my little enclosure. The paper towel is moist and my thermometer under their deli cup is reading 27.9 C so inside I'm guessing it's closer to 30 C.

I did move them off sand and onto just paper GS. The tiny shred of paper I had in there at first wasn't holding humidity through a 8 hour work day so this is the new set up.


This is one i found after work in mom enclosure she must have dropped at 9 when I was leaving for work? Or i missed it in my haste.



And this is mom eating real food instead of her precious babies. Oh how I resent her bad parenting.

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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 10:02 pm

The two on the left bottom are the dead 2 and the one on the far right about middle isn't looking so hot either. The rest seem good so far...
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 10:09 pm

@Yames wrote:
@ Toidy: 3 months ago I didn't own a scorpion. So if I can save even 1 with this worst case scenario I've been tossed into. Well I'll take that as a glowing victory.

And thanks everyone for your kind words.

true. just follow the tips that GS gave you and i think everything is going to be ok. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Lq Birth??? didn't know it was gravid   10/24/2012, 11:53 pm

Note that the key is locking in the humidity and ensure a steady warm temperature (estimate 75-85F) for the babies.

The paper towel can be slightly be on the moist side just before it enters the state of "soaking wet with puddles of water"

All the best for the kids makebetter
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