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 BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!

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S_Meister
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PostSubject: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/12/2012, 2:47 pm

Hi everyone, my female emp just had babies, I counted over 10 so far. She started giving birth 2 days ago and I guess she's still doing it. What are the proper instructions for caring for an emp that has babies? I know that they are really temperamental. I am really concerned with how I'm going to feed her. I spoiled both of my emps by hand feeding them and now they won't hunt for their own food. I'm afraid to hand feed her because she'll probably attack me. Also, how long does it take for the babies to become 1st instar?

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/12/2012, 3:14 pm

Congratulations.

You will want to check these two [HOW TO]'s by GS.

[HOW TO] Raise forest scorpions

[HOW TO] Feed 2.instar Scorpion Young

The ARE already 1st instar. They will turn to 2.instar when they molt on the mum's back.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/12/2012, 3:55 pm

This explains a lot of the questions I had. However, I have just a couple left. The first is: how soon should I feed the mother after she's done giving birth? The second is: I don't want to stress the mother out too much because I don't want her to eat her young, so how do I feed her without stressing her out (hand feeding) and also keeping the live cricket away from the young? The first article mentioned head crushing a large cricket and giving it to the mom, but I'm afraid of stressing her out and what if she doesn't take it?
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/12/2012, 3:57 pm

Congrats! The little ones are so cute. Smile

This is my first time with a new momma, but she's taken very well to leaving pre-killed right inside the entrance to her burrow. When she's ready she grabs it and if it's still there the next morning I remove it and leave fresh again that night. (Using tongs of course!)

I was so shocked yesterday when I saw the cricket I left was being eaten by one of the babies! They're only about two weeks old now and the cricket was as large as it was. I've been adding smaller pre-killed crickets and lateralis roaches throughout the day so they all have a chance to eat and the food disappears really quickly now.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/12/2012, 6:23 pm

How many 3rd/4th instars can I keep in a single 10g tank and in a 20g tank? I counted the number of babies and it turns out she had 17!!! I know I'll be able to give away around 7 of them and I'm reluctant to donate them to a pet store because they won't take care of them properly. So I might end up taking care of 10 more emps.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 2:45 am

Honestly speaking, there is no need to feed the scorpion mom before her scorplings has fully dismounted but most keepers will feel more at ease giving the scorpion mom an alternative food item to "munch on" instead of feeding on their scorpion babies. No harm in doing this though, as long as the offered prey item is fully incapcitated and placed gently on the substrate on the outside of the burrow/hide(for easy retrival if it was uneaten by the next day).

More on your other queries later as i can only do quick post now while i'm travelling. Our fellow friendly forumers will help too at the meantime Smile

Btw, Congratz!
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 12:51 pm

+1 to everything GS said.

No feeding is actually necessary, but I like to offer Heterometrus/Pandinus food anyway, due to the longer time it takes for the young to come off the mother's back.

If you feel like you want to offer the mum food, make sure she has finished giving birth, then wait a day more and offer her your feeder of choice, but make sure it's headcrushed.

Also, try to keep it as quiet as possible as to disturb the mother as less as possible. A constant opening of the lid/enclosure, or constantly going near it just to "watch" will definitely stress her out.

You can still attempt to tongue feed her with precaution, if she is hungry, she will take it. If she doesn't take it. You can either leave it next to her, or wait until all young are off her back.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 2:05 pm

I fed the mom 2 live crickets while holding them with pliers and putting it up to her mouth. She snatched them right away. I've never seen my emps hunt, even if there is food in the cage and they haven't eaten in a week. They're so spoiled! lol. But I have not problem feeding them like that, I;m just worried that it stresses them out. I have to raise the hide under which the mother sits in order to feed her. I'll try leaving an incapacitated cricket outside her hide, I doubt she'll grab it though. She hasn't willingly come out of her hide ever since she started giving birth.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 2:26 pm

Most likely, she'll start to venture out (at night) from her hide only after her scorplings has fully dismounted. As mentioned, there is no need to offer food as the scorpion mom has a natural supressant built-up against feeding (so that she can concentrate being a faithful incubator for her young) during her brooding period.

The killing of babies usually comes in when a baby is underdevelop, a weak individual that might not make it to 2.instar or the scorpion mom is being stressed out too much by external threats or harsh living conditions such as inapproprate dry humidity (e.g dry substrate) or constant vibration generated by your loud music (e.g endless gaming) within your "scorpion room"

It is definitely not recommended to lift her hide to offer food as you'll risk stressing her out.
Bump up the humidity appropriately and plan how you are raising the young is what you should be doing now Smile
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 5:11 pm

So just let the mom take care of the young? What I'm worried about is that the young will die of starvation if I don't let the mom have some food. Is that something to worry about?
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 6:07 pm

congratulations.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/13/2012, 11:06 pm

S_Meister wrote:
So just let the mom take care of the young? What I'm worried about is that the young will die of starvation if I don't let the mom have some food. Is that something to worry about?

Each young only will start feeding between 2-7 days AFTER he/she has dismounted from mom's back. Of cos, some may start feeding slightly earlier or later.

They should not starve from hunger as long they are fed within 10 days from the day they have dismounted from mom's back.

To keep your mind at ease, you can always leave headcrush roach/cricket within the enclosure. As long as they are fully incapcitated, they will not expose any danger to the mom or the scorplings. Just make sure the dead prey is cleared from the tank if it was untaken by the next day Smile
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/14/2012, 12:06 am

ok, that relaxes me a lot, lol. It's my first time taking care of younglings so I didn't know what to do, but now I do. Thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/14/2012, 12:31 am

No worries at all. We all have our first time as "parents" Very Happy
Keep us update on their progress. Pics are a bonus definitely.. Lol
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/14/2012, 1:05 am

I just ordered a digital camera from Amazon. Been wanting to get one for a while now but didn't get around to doing so. It should arrive within 8 business days.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/26/2012, 4:22 pm

The babies are doing absolutely fine! They just got off their mom's back and are moving around a lot, they're really fast! I had some issues with my camera order, but I should have it resolved in about a week so I'll post pics as soon as I get it.
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/26/2012, 9:18 pm

That's great news on the babies Very Happy
Look forward to your pics!
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/26/2012, 11:20 pm

Watching them grow up is alot of fun, especially if they're raised communally, you'll see alot of funny behaviour. The runts risk getting eaten but it's still worth it imo, especially when they start burrowing and stuff. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/29/2012, 4:23 pm

Yay! I got my camera! Here are some pics I took with it today:

Cage setup:


Elizabeta guarding the babies:



Babies!!!



The mom:
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   4/29/2012, 9:07 pm

Some more photos:





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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   5/20/2012, 2:48 am

Wow! Vlad, my scorpion whom I thought was a male turns out to be a female and had babies right after I separated the first liter from, Elizabeta, the first scorpion who had babies. And now, Elizabeta's starting to take care of one of Vlad's babies. Is this normal scorpion behavior?



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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   5/20/2012, 10:59 am

Quote :
my scorpion whom I thought was a male turns out to be a female

If you brought your emps from a shop then that would answer that. Shop owners are notorious for both not knowing much about their livestock together with telling a customer anything to make a sale....I've heard of a shop owner randomly picking up emps from a large container full of emps and arbitrarily assigning them a sex and age based on what he needed...When buying emps from a shop your 1.1 P.imperator could just as easily be 0.0.2, 2.0 or 0.2.

Quote :
Elizabeta's starting to take care of one of Vlad's babies. Is this normal scorpion behavior?

My guess would be that she's still in mother mode and has mistaken them as being hers or the babies are just crawling on the back of the other scorpion not realising it's not their mother and because the other scorp is still in mother mode she's not refusing them.

One thing i would like to say though is that your set up looks just fine, apart from in my opinion it would be better with just one water dish with some small pebbles in it so that your scorps could drink from the gaps in water coverage (and diminish the risk of any of them accidentally drowning) and a few more pieces of bark/wood instead...Your growing babies would be better suited with more hiding places, both for cutting down the risk of cannibalism as well as giving them as more varied environment.




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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   5/27/2012, 9:31 pm

Unfortunately, Vlad(ette) died yesterday and I put the babies in their own hide, they seem to be ok for now but they weren't ready to come off her back yet. Also, Shortly after the babies came off Elizabeta's back, I saw a bump on the right side of her last segment. I monitored it closely and now it has seemed to have gotten bigger so I'm thinking that it's an unborn baby stuck inside her. Here are some pics of that bump. Will she be able to live?



I also got Elizabeta a male companion and they started doing their mating dance right away and I saw a spermapod when they were finished. If she becomes gravid again, will that push out the unborn baby if it is one?
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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   5/28/2012, 3:54 am


Quote :
I'm thinking that it's an unborn baby stuck inside her. Here are some pics of that bump. Will she be able to live?

I don't really have an experience with that kind of thing so i can't give you an honest answer although someone did mention to me once that some scorpions have the ability to re-absorb unborn young or abort them. So you could try leaving her alone for a period, i.e no lifting her hide to check her out, no pictures and no other disturbances. Disturbances stress scorpions out and if it's continual you can risk all sorts of problems for your scorpion.
We can't really do anything to aid a scorpion anyway so the best thing is to leave them alone and hope they can sort any problems out themselves.

Quote :
If she becomes gravid again, will that push out the unborn baby if it is one?

The gestation period for emps is anything from 8 months to a year so it's unlikely.......An unborn baby in her stomach would either be gone or caused her death through septicaemia before that time.....

But don't go thinking worst case scenario's .. My advice would be, let her be in peace for a period and see how things turn out.

Maybe someone else has another approach or can offer other advice.


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PostSubject: Re: BABIES!!!!! I ALMOST CAN'T STAND THE CUTENESS!   5/31/2012, 12:37 am

I think her cyst ruptured, there is some leakage from it. Does this mean that she'll die?
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