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 [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.

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Callum B
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PostSubject: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/1/2011, 7:36 am

Here are some pics of the of the two D.O.A. Pandinus 'ugandaensis'.

Click here to view:
 

From what I can find P. cavimanus has a pectinal count of 14 - 17. The probable female I have has 12 'teeth' which takes it out of the bracket of being a P. cavimanus. However the only paper I have about P. ugandaensis ( http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2011_129.pdf ) states that females have 10 - 11 pectinal teeth. Hmmm confusing lol. How reliable is this method of ID'ing scorpions??????

The male has 14 pectinal teeth which does put it in the bracket of P. cavimanus but it does not have the concaved chela of P. cavimanus so I don't think it could be this species.

My camera is unfortunately failing at photographing clearly the trichobothria on the chela and patella. I will keep trying as this will probably give more accurate results.

Dolby, do you have pectinal counts for your two P. 'cavimanus'?


Last edited by GS on 12/9/2011, 3:38 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Spoiler container added)
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/1/2011, 7:41 am

Great job Callum!
Haven't counted the pectines, but you can see a clear size difference (like in your pics) the females pectines are about 50% in length compared to the male. In terms of colouring and chelae mine are identical to yours.
Where did you get yours from?

How's the temperament of yours?


Last edited by DolbyR on 12/1/2011, 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/1/2011, 7:49 am

They were from a guy advertising on Terraristik classifieds. Don't know his real name but he sells loads of different scorpions in bulk under the name of Exotic Pets. He is Polish.

There have been a number of people selling scorpions labelled as P. ugandaenis recently. Snowgoose (a UK importer) also had a Pandinus sp. 'Uganda' on his site earlier this year (before they were described) and the picture is identical to these guys.

Where did you get your two P. 'cavimanus' from? And have you sexed them?
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/1/2011, 7:58 am

A friend of mine imported them from the Czech Republic. They were sold as sub-adult cavimanus, they're probably around 10cm or maybe a bit under. I've sexed them just by looking at the sizes of the pectines, haven't counted them. But the (pectine) size difference is so massive that there's no way they could be of same sex.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/1/2011, 8:11 am

Dig 'em up and get a pectinal count lol!!!

Does you probable male have the concave claws like P. cavimanus or do they look like the male above ^^^??
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/6/2011, 3:50 am

I've received a dead specimen from the same import that mine is from. As soon as I have bit of free time, I will take a further look and hopefully I will get a positive ID as P. ugandaensis.

In the meanwhile, I'm 95% sure they are not cavimanus. From my experience, cavimanus are usually slightly bigger. Also, the telson ia not dark like cavimanus, and chelae look different.

I can conlude for now that mine are adults too. Spermatophor was found last night.

Callum, could you maybe rename the thread to something like P. ugandaensis ID discussion, for example?
Would increase the chances of other people reading it. We need more people in the discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/6/2011, 5:18 am

Oooo nice, so have they been getting frisky lol??

I have had a go at sexing all my surviving scorpions. 6 look like males and 1 is a possible female as its pectinal count is lower however its genital operculum looks just like a males??? Very confusing.

I might put the pics up and see what you reckon.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/6/2011, 6:16 am

Ok here is the operculum/pectines pics of 7 of my P. ugandaensis.

Click here to view:
 


Last edited by GS on 12/15/2011, 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added Spolier container for images)
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/15/2011, 8:00 am

Some pictures of the chela, trichobothria etc. I'm pushing my camera to the limits of its capabilities so the pictures aren't perfect. Basically I need a macro lense or GS lol.

I have also messaged a member of another forum to have a look who should hopefully be able to give a positive ID, providing my pictures are good enough lol.

Male.
Click here to view:
 


Female
Click here to view:
 

Andrea, if you do see this, it would be great if you could add some input on your opinion etc.


Last edited by GS on 12/15/2011, 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added Spolier container for images)
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/15/2011, 11:15 am

Callum bro,

They reminded me of chili crabs... Laughing

Click here to view:
 

These are very good macro shots you have posted Smile

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/15/2011, 1:29 pm

Haha, I know which one I'd prefer to eat.

I am quite pleased with my camera, it does ok with 'macro' even though I don't have a macro lense. It's hard though, being in the shadow of the god of scorpion pics Smile haha.

Andrea, Kaiser Scorpions of of Arachnoboards has had a look at the chela pics and has given a 100% yes on them being P. ugandaensis. Yaaaay lol.

Dolby Smile , when are you going to dig your possible P. ugandaensis out??

(GS: how do you add the spoiler container for pic heavy posts to save you having to edit it all lol??)
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/15/2011, 2:25 pm

They have great macro effect even though you are not on dedicated macro lens. Impressive Smile

Well, another reason i added the spolier it's because people would want to re-visit a nice thread!

And it pains them having to re-load heavy pics (especially when they are not on high-speed broadband) when they wish to see the latest update in your thread Very Happy

Just remove the * below and it will be functional Smile

[*spoiler=Click here to view]

[*img]http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif[/img]

[*/spoiler]
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 3:15 am

That's a weird looking meal!
Callum, what cam are you using? Pretty awesome pics for shots without a dedicated macro lens.

I'll post up pics of mine probably during the X-mas-NY period. Been pretty busy lately at work, plus making a 1400+ litre terrarium.

As soon as I get some more time, and find the adapter for my tripod, I'll try to get detailed shots of the deceased specimen I am keeping in the freezer Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 6:15 am

I'm using a Nikon Coolpix P500. It's like a cross over camera, not a compact but not an SLR. Easy-ish to use, with a macro setting but no messing about with expensive lenses. Although now that I have started to get a hang of it I'm wanting something better lol.

Oooo, 1400 litre?!? That's massive. Last time I had the chance to play about with a tank that big I was keeping freshwater stingrays lol. What invert or reptile needs a tank that big?? Giant scorpion community lol??

I'm happy now, finished uni for xmas and got a month off although, no doubt work will want me in all the time now lol.

Are you keeping your 2 Pandinus sp. together or are they in seperate tanks? I'm wondering whether the P. ugandaensis will co-habit or not.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 6:25 am

That looks like a nice camera. Look pretty much like Canons SX30/SX40 series.
I┤m with an SX130, not too bad, and lots of manual settings to learn.

The enclosure is for my green iggy, it could be even bigger but this will do for a couple of months. For some reasons a friend of mine was taking care of him for the past year, but now he┤s back home. Will post pics as soon as I get him rehoused (has been living in a rabbit cage since sunday).

Yeah, I'm keeping my pandinus together. I kept them separate for about a month as they║re pretty feisty, always ready to pinch and they hiss a lot. But now they┤ve been communal from atleast a month. They seem to enjoy staying under the same hide too!
Haven't witnessed any signs of aggression so far.

The only pic I have of their setup:
 
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 6:42 am

Yer same kind of thing. Think they are called bridge cameras. Canon SX130 means nothing to me. I'm a caveman with electronic stuff lol. My Dad chose the camera for me and I only know what it's called by looking at the box haha. It's a good job it comes with a decent manual book lol.

I really, really want an iguana. I used to work with Lesser Antillean Iguanas (Iguana delicatissima) at Durrell Wildlife in Jersey and fell in love with them. The males were full of attitude and regularly tried to take my eye out haha. It made cleaning there poo up more exciting. One day, when I have my own house with a nice big conservatory I will keep an iguana.

I may have an experiment then and try out a couple communally. One thing I am struggling with though is what humidity to keep them at. By the looks of things they are a savanna species but finding info on the climate in their range is difficult.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 6:48 am

I mist them weekly at feeding time. I keep the hygrometer as reference, when it drops to around 60-62% I mist the enclosure. On average I think it stays at around 70% throughout the week. Looks like they're doing fine for now. Being a Pandinus, I wouldn't let the moisture drop under 60%. But on the other hand, considering their natural location, I don't think they need much more than 70-75% tops.

We lover our iggy, it was the first pet we bought together with my wife, he was about 40cm and 100gr at the time. Now he's around 1,5m and 3-5kg.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 6:58 am

Yer that's what I was thinking, somewhere between 60 - 75%. I reckon some kind of seasonal variation (wet n dry) may be beneficial. I'll see how it goes, I've got lots to play with, although they are nearly all males Evil or Very Mad lol.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/16/2011, 7:02 pm

After speaking more with Andrea apparently there are 3 trichobothria that set P. ugandaensis apart from other Pandinus sp. Fairly easy to spot with a close up shot or a magnifying glass. I have added lines to the picture to show where they are, well I think this is them anyway lol.

Click here to view:
 
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/19/2011, 3:36 am

That's great info Callum! So I guess your 100% (or atleast 99% lol!) sure yours are ugandaensis.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/24/2011, 9:50 am

Pandinus ugandaensis are really cool looking. Wish you success in breeding them Callum Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion] Pandinus ugandaensis identification.   12/25/2011, 6:34 am

Hopefully I can get a 100% ID that mine are ugandaensis as well.
If so, we can get a competition up with Callum to see who gets a brood first Wink

Though mine mated already so it won't be very fair Very Happy
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