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 Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)

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wodesorel
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PostSubject: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 7:20 am

Everything I'm reading about young Emps says they reach full size in 1 to 2 years... Mine were born on May 5th, and when I bought them on July 5th they were at 2i. I just had my third molt today, which puts one at 5i. The other doesn't look like it's anywhere close to molting yet. They should both be males, so that means the one now has only one molt left?

They're in a tank with a temperature gradient of 92 to 85 degrees, They stay on the cool side in their burrow all day, but they love to bask in the heat at night. It's at around 85% humidity.

They're going through 12 to 18 small-medium crickets a week between the two of them. They never look pudgy or overweight, except in the last few days before the molt. If there are no crickets left in the tank the one will come and ask for more. (No seriously, he comes out of hiding when I walk into the room, and he sits out in the open and waits for me to put crickets in. It's the only time I see him out in the light, and once he's had his dinner and there's crickets running around he disappears again.)

Will that last molt take months to happen, or should I expect another molt in about month? Is this dangerous in any way for them?
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DolbyR
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 8:41 am

12-15 crickets sounds pretty much. An adult usually eats 1-2 adult crickets a week.
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wodesorel
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 10:00 am

Should I limit how much they get? Everything I've read says to offer them however much they want at that age. And they really are rather trim:

I moved them into a 30G last weekend, and I took the opportunity to take a few photos:



He wouldn't even stop eating when I moved him!


And this is the one who molted. He had to have molted within a day or two of this photo:



(The molt in the photo was from their 2i to 3i, which was on August 11.)

They're still rather small, I think?



(If it isn't obvious, these are my first scorps. Maybe I shouldn't have went with babies as my firsts, but I am enjoying the ride! Very Happy )

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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 11:07 am

temperature in the tank?
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 11:24 am

wodesorel wrote:
They're in a tank with a temperature gradient of 92 to 85 degrees,
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LeriusQuin
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 12:04 pm

I feed mine 1-2 crickets a week. What it sounds like is, you're feeding them waaaaaaaaaay too much, and/or the temp in the tank is well beyond what it should be. In a since you may be creating a hotbox, without even realizing it. However, we won't know until you tell us temp, humidity, etc..
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/22/2011, 3:45 pm

wodesorel wrote:
They're in a tank with a temperature gradient of 92
to 85 degrees, They stay on the cool side in their burrow all day, but
they love to bask in the heat at night. It's at around 85%
humidity.

DolbyR wrote:
wodesorel wrote:
They're in a tank with a temperature gradient of 92 to 85 degrees,

Uhhhhhhh...


They ARE growing quite fast, but it's not going to do anything negative to them except for shorten their overall life span. Slow down on the food, or don't. It's your choice.
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wodesorel
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/23/2011, 3:15 am

I'm concerned that if I slow down on the crickets they'll try eating each other. I will lower the temps some - didn't realize that the highs in Ghana are only in the upper 80s, though their burrow is at 83 degrees. (I use an infrared heat gun so I can pin-point where they're staying.)

Any idea of how much it could shorten their lifespan?
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/23/2011, 12:57 pm

That I can not say, though lowering their temps will slow their metabolism which will slow their eating.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/25/2011, 11:57 am

I'd feed them only about 2 - 3 crickets each a week.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   10/25/2011, 1:54 pm

Yeah one cricket every 2-3 days is plenty

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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   12/19/2011, 12:40 pm

I wanted to update:

I lowered the temps and the scorps themselves cut back on dinner. They've only been going through 6 to 8 small crickets a week between the two of them combined for the past month and a half.

Didn't work though - I just found another molt this morning, so one is definitely now at 6i and should be fully grown. If they keep to what they've done in the past the other will follow in the next 7 to 10 days. (They are going in order though, I can tell by the molts. The one who molts first carries out a perfect molt and leaves it by the water dish which is what I found. The other one scatters pieces everywhere!)

So yeah.. guess I'll know in the next few years what'll happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   12/19/2011, 3:34 pm

Did you name him Jack?
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wodesorel
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/3/2012, 11:12 am

I was finally able to get a photo of one of them last night - he was out basking when I went to bed and for the first time wasn't being jumpy. Is it just me or does this guy really not look like a full-grown emp? (Or is it just that I'm only seeing the larger females in the store so I'm not able to do a proper comparison?)



I know they are males, I have both their molts and it occurred to me last month to just check that for their gender rather than trying to handle them outside of the tank.

Also, for the life of me can't figure out why he is so chubby. He looks like he's going to molt again in another week, but that would be impossible, right? Males can only molt 6 times, or am I wrong about that? The two of them are sharing 5 to 6 tiny crickets (half-inch, much smaller then their claws) a week.
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shining
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/4/2012, 2:17 am

So...uhh....like what's the temperature and humidity cheers ?
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/4/2012, 11:13 pm

Still 85-90 and 85% throughout the tank. Although he's sitting on the hottest spot that is around 100 degrees. (I also never see them on the cool side of the tank. Should I up the temp a bit?)

Edited to add photos:

He's back in the same spot tonight, so I snapped a few more photos.






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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/5/2012, 4:43 am

Lower the temp to about 25c
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/5/2012, 3:48 pm

I double checked the temp today with my heat gun as the thermometer in there is up pretty high on the glass. It's 84 on the hot side (where he was basking) and 78 on the cold side. Their burrow is 78 as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/10/2012, 4:22 pm

85F is the ideal temperature for a Emp. From the color of the telson, your scorp has not yet reached adulthood.
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/12/2012, 7:32 am

I upped the temperature a bit so that it's more like 87 on the hot side and 79 on the cool side. That puts their burrow around 83 degrees. (The entire room is heated to between 78 and 80, so ambient temperature even at the bottom of the substrate is still warm.) I'm looking at moving from a heat lamp to an ultratherm pad this summer, so temps might be easier to control in the near future.

Can Emperor males have more than 6 molts? I know they have molted four times with me and I have the molts to prove it. (I also know that they are males from those molts.) When I bought them they were two months old and had to have been at least at 2i. They were born on May 5th, 2011.

Baby picture taken July 10, 2011, before they ever molted with me.




Honestly, I think they may be molting again. The crickets have gone untouched for a week and I haven't seen either one of them since the last photo I posted, which is their molting MO. I guess I just have to wait and see, but I really hate the waiting!!
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/14/2012, 8:59 am

Personally, I just say you're doing a great job of raising them, maybe cut down on the food a little.

Nice pics btw, and would like to see the full setup, looks nice and natural.

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wodesorel
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/23/2012, 4:07 pm

Thank you Jamie! Smile

I think the reason why I'm fretting over these two so much is that they aren't giving me any feedback. All my other critters have ways of communicating when something is wrong or when they are ill, but the scorps are so private I just have no way of judging how they are doing. I understand now why they are not considered a starter pet. Don't get me wrong - I have no regrets. Smile I also realize that not seeing them is also a good thing. But it still has me worried especially since they are so far away from normal on their growth rate.

Tank is planted and has a peat moss substrate. Branches are deadfall from the lilac in my backyard and the pipe is an ancient drainage pipe that's been sitting out back for decades from the last time they did work on the house. (I thought it looked really cool and wanted to use it for something. The roaches hated it, so the scorps got it instead!) It's been I think six months since I planted it all and it's getting to be a really solid terrarium at this point. If I was going to be having 'pet holes' then I might as well make the hole look pretty during the day. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/24/2012, 12:03 am

JamieLawrence wrote:
Personally, I just say you're doing a great job of raising them, maybe cut down on the food a little.

Nice pics btw, and would like to see the full setup, looks nice and natural.
+1 Smile

wodesorel wrote:
If I was going to be having 'pet holes' then I might as well make the hole look pretty during the day. Smile

Nicely said.
That is one neat looking enclosure. Very natural and pleasing to the eye.
What a great way to relax ourselves from a tough day at work Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/24/2012, 3:07 am

That's a great looking enclosure!
I've been wanting to do something similar for a long time (or a planted aquarium), but I'm not too good with plants Very Happy

What kind of lighting are you using for the plants? Also, would you mind sharing what plants you've got in there?
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wodesorel
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PostSubject: Re: Growing too quickly? (5 months old and 5i)   2/24/2012, 9:57 pm

Thank you! Smile For me, it's wonderful to have live plants in the house since my cats have eaten everything up to this point.

Lighting is a 4 foot shop light with natural white florescent bulbs that are left on about 8 hours a day. I built the three-shelf stand to be a growing platform for my garden seedlings, but the inverts took it over during the summer and fall. (And now that it's time to plant the seedlings I have no idea what to do! lol ) Substrate is plain peat moss.

In the scorp tank there is a random fern on the left (bought for $1 when it was half-dead), the middle plant is a spider plant, and on the right is Golden Pothos. There are two types of ivy in the front.

I also planted my Madagascar Hissing cockroach tank which has the bottom shelf and the same lighting set-up. The plants there are also doing marvelous.



There is a dracaena in the left corner (brand new and will probably get too large in time), another Golden Pothos, a nepthytis in the middle, and more Golden Pothos on the right. There are also two more ivy cultivars up front.

Pothos will be the easiest thing to grow - it doesn't need a lot of light and it grows fast. Really fast. I started last September with a 4 inch pot of the stuff and you can see how much I've been able to cut and spread around, and I also have half of my 29 gallon Fiddler tank covered in it as well! Ivy is also an easy one although the root structure is shallow and the boys have been digging it up in places. The other plants will most likely become too large in time and I'm sure will need trimmed or divided around the one year mark. I'm already having to cut the longest nepthytis leaves off so they aren't touching the screen lid. Everything was bought from Walmart or Lowes for a few dollars, save for the spider plant as that one was a new cultivar. (Washed extremely well in running water for 15 minutes with all soil removed.)
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