The Web's Only Official All-Scorpion Forum!


 
HomePortalCalendarFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in
ChatBox

Share | 
 

 Please ID found in Mexico

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
bana
Pandinus
avatar

Number of posts : 7
Age : 40
Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2008-05-13

PostSubject: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 11:12 am

It is very usual to find these 2 species here in Mexico.
Here is the red one




Here is the otherone




Thanxxx
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://elchueno.spaces.live.com
liette
Centruroides


Number of posts : 185
Age : 27
Location : Malaysia
Registration date : 2008-02-25

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 11:20 am

the first one looks like its from the genus Babycurus. i could be wrong though. lets jz wait for the experienced ones to answer.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 2:54 pm

liette wrote:
the first one looks like its from the genus Babycurus. i could be wrong though. lets jz wait for the experienced ones to answer.

they're both Centruroides. Babycurus is impossible.

hey Bana, what was the locale where you found these? I could narrow it down using id keyes if I had specifics about what state and region of mexico they were found.

p.s. you can always send some up here, hahaha
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Venom
Centruroides suffusus
avatar

Number of posts : 2834
Age : 2013
Location : Chicago
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 3:15 pm

El segundo looks like a C.Limpidus.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 4:18 pm

Venom wrote:
El segundo looks like a C.Limpidus.

C.L. tecomanus is the closest I could find but I'm not gonna invest too much into that id. the first one looks to be C. noxious but there's 33 sp. of Centruroides in mexico including subspecies so unless I'm given the locale I'm not making any guesses
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Venom
Centruroides suffusus
avatar

Number of posts : 2834
Age : 2013
Location : Chicago
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 10:26 pm

Well it says Mex city
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 10:36 pm

Venom wrote:
Well it says Mex city

yeah, but did he find them in the city or somewhere else in the df or surrounding territories
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Venom
Centruroides suffusus
avatar

Number of posts : 2834
Age : 2013
Location : Chicago
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 10:43 pm

Ask him
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/13/2008, 10:45 pm

Venom wrote:
Ask him


I reiterate:
Rasputin wrote:
hey Bana, what was the locale where you found these? I could narrow it down using id keyes if I had specifics about what state and region of mexico they were found.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Venom
Centruroides suffusus
avatar

Number of posts : 2834
Age : 2013
Location : Chicago
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 12:30 pm

I'm playing with you foo
Back to top Go down
View user profile
skinheaddave
Pandinus


Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2008-02-06

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 5:38 pm

[quote="Rasputin"]
liette wrote:
I could narrow it down using id keyes if I had specifics about what state and region of mexico they were found.

What keys are you using? I have yet to find anything particularly satisfactory for this genus.

Cheers,
Dave
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 6:51 pm

I'm using redtox.org - it has a list of most of the species of Centruroides in mexico and a halfway decent key for each in html - it's all in spanish, fyi
Back to top Go down
View user profile
~Abyss~
Administrator
avatar

Number of posts : 6472
Age : 28
Location : Los Angeles Cali.
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 7:33 pm

The first one looks very familiar. The second one could be C. limpadus(?)....I don't know....
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com
skinheaddave
Pandinus


Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2008-02-06

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 7:40 pm

Okay. The site doesn't actually contain a key as far as I can tell, but that is useful info. Very similar to INBIO for Costa Rica. Given that site, however, you would still be hard-pressed to ID a Centruroides species from a photo. Some will be doable -- but the focus on colour for many of the IDs makes their use questionable. Pectine counts are good, though, as are denticle counts if it is made clear how they are done. My Spanish isn't great and I haven't picked through the whole site yet. Do they specify whether they are using the moving or fixed fingers and whether the counts include apical rows/how they deal with fused basal rows?

The other concern is that many species appear to be missing from the site. Once again, I haven't picked it through yet so maybe I am missing something critical.

Cheers,
Dave
Back to top Go down
View user profile
skinheaddave
Pandinus


Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2008-02-06

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 7:42 pm

Oh, and I'm not so sure that first one is Centruroides at all.

Cheers,
Dave
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 7:51 pm

skinheaddave wrote:
Okay. The site doesn't actually contain a key as far as I can tell, but that is useful info. Very similar to INBIO for Costa Rica. Given that site, however, you would still be hard-pressed to ID a Centruroides species from a photo. Some will be doable -- but the focus on colour for many of the IDs makes their use questionable. Pectine counts are good, though, as are denticle counts if it is made clear how they are done. My Spanish isn't great and I haven't picked through the whole site yet. Do they specify whether they are using the moving or fixed fingers and whether the counts include apical rows/how they deal with fused basal rows?

The other concern is that many species appear to be missing from the site. Once again, I haven't picked it through yet so maybe I am missing something critical.

Cheers,
Dave

most of the definitions are pretty good. I did say it's not a complete list though. it's the best reference I've been able to find on mexican Centruroides

skinheaddave wrote:
Oh, and I'm not so sure that first one is Centruroides at all.

Cheers,
Dave

it does look like it could be Vaejovoid
Back to top Go down
View user profile
skinheaddave
Pandinus


Number of posts : 12
Registration date : 2008-02-06

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 8:49 pm

Rasputin wrote:
it's the best reference I've been able to find on mexican Centruroides

It is a good site and, as stated, has some good information on it. To take something like that and use it to ID a specimen from photos like those above, however, is akin to taking a hammer -- a very well crafted and useful hammer -- and trying to use it to build an entire house from the ground up. If I may, I've compiled a brief and hopelessly incomplete bibliography of papers relevant to Centruroides in Mexico on the whole:

Quote :
Brown C.A. (1996) Interpopulation and intersexual variation in pectine tooth counts in Centruroides Vittatus (Scorpionida, Buthidae). Journal of Arachnology 24: 262-264.

Gertsch W.J. (1958) Results of the Puritan-American Museum expedition to Western Mexico 4. The Scorpions. American Museum Novitates 1903: 1-20.

Lourenco W.R. & W.D. Sissom (2000) 5. Scorpiones. In Biodiversidad, taxonomia y biogeografia de arthropodos de Mexico. Llorente Bousquets J.E., Garcia Aldrete A.N. & Gonzalez Soriano E. eds., UNAM Mexico, 660pp.

Lourenco W.R. (1991) Interspecific hybridation of laboratory reared Centruroides gracilis and Centruroides margaritatus (Chelicerata, Scorpiones) Stud. Neotrop.Fauna Environ. 26(1): 29-32.

Martín-Frías E. & L.F. De Armas (2001) Scorpions in Mexico. Comments on some species from Centruroides gracilis and C. margaritatus (SCORPIONES; BUTHIDAE) groups – Journal of Venomous Animals and Toxins 7 (2): 331-331

Martín-Frías E., L.F. De Armas & J.F. Paniagua-Solís. (2005) Redescription of the Mexican scorpion Centruroides hoffmanni Armas, 1976 (Scorpiones: Buthidae). Euscorpius, 22, pp. 1–7.

Shelley R.M. & W.D. Sissom (1995) Distributions of the scorpions Centruroides vittatus (Say) and Centruroides hentzi (Banks) in the United States and Mexico (Scorpiones, Buthidae). Journal of Arachnology 23 (2): 100-110.

Sissom W.D. & W.R. Lourenco (1987) The genus Centruroides in South America (Scorpiones, Buthidae. Journal of Arachnology 15(1): 11-28.

Stahnke H.L. & M. Calos (1977) A key to the species of the genus Centruroides Marx (Scorpionida: Buthidae). Entomological News 88, 5 & 6: 111–120.

Towler W.I., J. Ponce Saavedra, B. Gantenbein & V. Fet (2001) Mitochondrial DNA reveals a divergent phylogeny in tropical Centruroides (Scorpiones, Buthidae) from Mexico. Biogeographica 77(4): 157-172.

Valdez A. et al. (2004) Biochemical, genetic and physiological characterization of venom components from two species of scorpions : Centruroides exilicauda Wood and Centruroides sculpturatus Ewing. Biochimie 86 : 387-396.

Wagner F.W. (1977) Descriptions of Centruroides Marx from Yucatan Peninsula (Arachnida, Scorpionida, Buthidae). Bull. Assoc. Mexican Cave Studies, 6: 39-47.

Williams S.C. (1980): Scorpions of Baja California, Mexico and Adjacent Islands. Occasional Papers of the California Academy of Sciences 135:1-127.


These are the ones I've read and used to one degree or another to definitevely ID specimens in hand. The net result has been only a realization that the genus as a whole is still hopelessly ill defined and needs a lot of revision. On occasion you will hit species about which a fair amount has been written and, combined with a good locale, you can get a very decent ID. In the end, though, the little yellow jobbies from Mexico usually turn out to be too poorly differentiated in the literature.

Cheers,
Dave
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/14/2008, 9:54 pm

good list, I've seen and read a few of those before.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
bana
Pandinus
avatar

Number of posts : 7
Age : 40
Location : Mexico City
Registration date : 2008-05-13

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   5/18/2008, 2:12 am

That's what i supossed at first sigth. Centuroides.
1st one was found in Huisquilucan, Estado de México, about 20 kms from Mexico City
2nd one was found in Cuernavaca, Morelos, México, called the Ethernal Spring City becouse of its climate. 77 kms from Mexico City.

thanks for ur concern! study
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://elchueno.spaces.live.com
lycanlord
Leiurus
avatar

Number of posts : 2916
Age : 29
Location : Barnsley
Registration date : 2008-06-03

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   6/3/2008, 5:48 pm

im new to this site hello everyone, just wanted to join in personally i would say the second one is definatel centruroides vittatus (striped scorpion) it looks almost identical and is found in the same area more or less im not too sure on the first one, it duz look a bit like a babycurus jacksoni but obviously its an african scorp really its a strange one lol!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
~Abyss~
Administrator
avatar

Number of posts : 6472
Age : 28
Location : Los Angeles Cali.
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   6/3/2008, 5:51 pm

Hi and welcome to the site. The first one is most definatly not B.jacks the second one can actually be anything considering C. vitt aren't the only species with stripes. C. suffusus has them too.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   6/3/2008, 5:58 pm

lycanlord19 wrote:
im new to this site hello everyone, just wanted to join in personally i would say the second one is definatel centruroides vittatus (striped scorpion) it looks almost identical and is found in the same area more or less im not too sure on the first one, it duz look a bit like a babycurus jacksoni but obviously its an african scorp really its a strange one lol!

1) there are no C. vittatus in that region of mexico
2) there are no species of the genre Babycurus in mexico

the first one is likely to be a Vaejovoid and the second is Centruroide, just not vittatus. you might want to read the whole thread to get an idea of where we left off in the identification.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lycanlord
Leiurus
avatar

Number of posts : 2916
Age : 29
Location : Barnsley
Registration date : 2008-06-03

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   6/3/2008, 6:00 pm

good point to be honest i hadnt even thought about the possibility of C. suffusus hmmm thats why scorps are fun its never easy lol i still think its c. vittatus im no longer 100% but there seems to be something different i cant quite figure out what yet tho
Back to top Go down
View user profile
lycanlord
Leiurus
avatar

Number of posts : 2916
Age : 29
Location : Barnsley
Registration date : 2008-06-03

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   6/3/2008, 6:03 pm

ps i never said the first one was babycurus i just said it looks simillar but is impossible. lol just thought id clear that up, and in that case im not sure what the second one is but it has to be a centruroide
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rasputin
Parabuthus


Number of posts : 1051
Age : 34
Registration date : 2008-03-12

PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   6/3/2008, 6:14 pm

we're all aware that it's a Centruroide, it's 100% not a vittatus though.

I own a ton of vittis. click here and you'll see clearly the burglar mask that's missing from species number two on this thread
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Please ID found in Mexico   

Back to top Go down
 
Please ID found in Mexico
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» What type of scorpion is this?
» Rare Jaguar found in Southern Arizona
» How long have you been in the scorpion hobby?
» found staffie female underweight
» Found this on my local paper, very sad.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Web's Only Official All-Scorpion Forum! :: The Scorpion's Lair :: Scorpion ID-
Jump to: