Please ID found in Mexico

It is very usual to find these 2 species here in Mexico.
Here is the red one




Here is the otherone




Thanxxx

the first one looks like its from the genus Babycurus. i could be wrong though. lets jz wait for the experienced ones to answer.

liette wrote:

the first one looks like its from the genus Babycurus. i could be wrong though. lets jz wait for the experienced ones to answer.

they're both Centruroides. Babycurus is impossible.

hey Bana, what was the locale where you found these? I could narrow it down using id keyes if I had specifics about what state and region of mexico they were found.

p.s. you can always send some up here, hahaha

El segundo looks like a C.Limpidus.

Venom wrote:

El segundo looks like a C.Limpidus.

C.L. tecomanus is the closest I could find but I'm not gonna invest too much into that id. the first one looks to be C. noxious but there's 33 sp. of Centruroides in mexico including subspecies so unless I'm given the locale I'm not making any guesses

Well it says Mex city

Venom wrote:

Well it says Mex city

yeah, but did he find them in the city or somewhere else in the df or surrounding territories

Ask him

Venom wrote:

Ask him

I reiterate:

Rasputin wrote:

hey Bana, what was the locale where you found these? I could narrow it down using id keyes if I had specifics about what state and region of mexico they were found.

I'm playing with you foo

[quote="Rasputin"]

liette wrote:

I could narrow it down using id keyes if I had specifics about what state and region of mexico they were found.

What keys are you using? I have yet to find anything particularly satisfactory for this genus.

Cheers,
Dave

I'm using redtox.org - it has a list of most of the species of Centruroides in mexico and a halfway decent key for each in html - it's all in spanish, fyi

The first one looks very familiar. The second one could be C. limpadus(?)....I don't know....

Okay. The site doesn't actually contain a key as far as I can tell, but that is useful info. Very similar to INBIO for Costa Rica. Given that site, however, you would still be hard-pressed to ID a Centruroides species from a photo. Some will be doable -- but the focus on colour for many of the IDs makes their use questionable. Pectine counts are good, though, as are denticle counts if it is made clear how they are done. My Spanish isn't great and I haven't picked through the whole site yet. Do they specify whether they are using the moving or fixed fingers and whether the counts include apical rows/how they deal with fused basal rows?

The other concern is that many species appear to be missing from the site. Once again, I haven't picked it through yet so maybe I am missing something critical.

Cheers,
Dave

Oh, and I'm not so sure that first one is Centruroides at all.

Cheers,
Dave

skinheaddave wrote:

Okay. The site doesn't actually contain a key as far as I can tell, but that is useful info. Very similar to INBIO for Costa Rica. Given that site, however, you would still be hard-pressed to ID a Centruroides species from a photo. Some will be doable -- but the focus on colour for many of the IDs makes their use questionable. Pectine counts are good, though, as are denticle counts if it is made clear how they are done. My Spanish isn't great and I haven't picked through the whole site yet. Do they specify whether they are using the moving or fixed fingers and whether the counts include apical rows/how they deal with fused basal rows?

The other concern is that many species appear to be missing from the site. Once again, I haven't picked it through yet so maybe I am missing something critical.

Cheers,
Dave

most of the definitions are pretty good. I did say it's not a complete list though. it's the best reference I've been able to find on mexican Centruroides

skinheaddave wrote:

Oh, and I'm not so sure that first one is Centruroides at all.

Cheers,
Dave

it does look like it could be Vaejovoid

Rasputin wrote:

it's the best reference I've been able to find on mexican Centruroides

It is a good site and, as stated, has some good information on it. To take something like that and use it to ID a specimen from photos like those above, however, is akin to taking a hammer -- a very well crafted and useful hammer -- and trying to use it to build an entire house from the ground up. If I may, I've compiled a brief and hopelessly incomplete bibliography of papers relevant to Centruroides in Mexico on the whole:

Quote :

Brown C.A. (1996) Interpopulation and intersexual variation in pectine tooth counts in Centruroides Vittatus (Scorpionida, Buthidae). Journal of Arachnology 24: 262-264.

Gertsch W.J. (1958) Results of the Puritan-American Museum expedition to Western Mexico 4. The Scorpions. American Museum Novitates 1903: 1-20.

Lourenco W.R. & W.D. Sissom (2000) 5. Scorpiones. In Biodiversidad, taxonomia y biogeografia de arthropodos de Mexico. Llorente Bousquets J.E., Garcia Aldrete A.N. & Gonzalez Soriano E. eds., UNAM Mexico, 660pp.

Lourenco W.R. (1991) Interspecific hybridation of laboratory reared Centruroides gracilis and Centruroides margaritatus (Chelicerata, Scorpiones) Stud. Neotrop.Fauna Environ. 26(1): 29-32.

Martín-Frías E. & L.F. De Armas (2001) Scorpions in Mexico. Comments on some species from Centruroides gracilis and C. margaritatus (SCORPIONES; BUTHIDAE) groups – Journal of Venomous Animals and Toxins 7 (2): 331-331

Martín-Frías E., L.F. De Armas & J.F. Paniagua-Solís. (2005) Redescription of the Mexican scorpion Centruroides hoffmanni Armas, 1976 (Scorpiones: Buthidae). Euscorpius, 22, pp. 1–7.

Shelley R.M. & W.D. Sissom (1995) Distributions of the scorpions Centruroides vittatus (Say) and Centruroides hentzi (Banks) in the United States and Mexico (Scorpiones, Buthidae). Journal of Arachnology 23 (2): 100-110.

Sissom W.D. & W.R. Lourenco (1987) The genus Centruroides in South America (Scorpiones, Buthidae. Journal of Arachnology 15(1): 11-28.

Stahnke H.L. & M. Calos (1977) A key to the species of the genus Centruroides Marx (Scorpionida: Buthidae). Entomological News 88, 5 & 6: 111–120.

Towler W.I., J. Ponce Saavedra, B. Gantenbein & V. Fet (2001) Mitochondrial DNA reveals a divergent phylogeny in tropical Centruroides (Scorpiones, Buthidae) from Mexico. Biogeographica 77(4): 157-172.

Valdez A. et al. (2004) Biochemical, genetic and physiological characterization of venom components from two species of scorpions : Centruroides exilicauda Wood and Centruroides sculpturatus Ewing. Biochimie 86 : 387-396.

Wagner F.W. (1977) Descriptions of Centruroides Marx from Yucatan Peninsula (Arachnida, Scorpionida, Buthidae). Bull. Assoc. Mexican Cave Studies, 6: 39-47.

Williams S.C. (1980): Scorpions of Baja California, Mexico and Adjacent Islands. Occasional Papers of the California Academy of Sciences 135:1-127.

These are the ones I've read and used to one degree or another to definitevely ID specimens in hand. The net result has been only a realization that the genus as a whole is still hopelessly ill defined and needs a lot of revision. On occasion you will hit species about which a fair amount has been written and, combined with a good locale, you can get a very decent ID. In the end, though, the little yellow jobbies from Mexico usually turn out to be too poorly differentiated in the literature.

Cheers,
Dave

good list, I've seen and read a few of those before.

That's what i supossed at first sigth. Centuroides.
1st one was found in Huisquilucan, Estado de México, about 20 kms from Mexico City
2nd one was found in Cuernavaca, Morelos, México, called the Ethernal Spring City becouse of its climate. 77 kms from Mexico City.

thanks for ur concern!

im new to this site hello everyone, just wanted to join in personally i would say the second one is definatel centruroides vittatus (striped scorpion) it looks almost identical and is found in the same area more or less im not too sure on the first one, it duz look a bit like a babycurus jacksoni but obviously its an african scorp really its a strange one

Hi and welcome to the site. The first one is most definatly not B.jacks the second one can actually be anything considering C. vitt aren't the only species with stripes. C. suffusus has them too.

lycanlord19 wrote:

im new to this site hello everyone, just wanted to join in personally i would say the second one is definatel centruroides vittatus (striped scorpion) it looks almost identical and is found in the same area more or less im not too sure on the first one, it duz look a bit like a babycurus jacksoni but obviously its an african scorp really its a strange one

1) there are no C. vittatus in that region of mexico
2) there are no species of the genre Babycurus in mexico

the first one is likely to be a Vaejovoid and the second is Centruroide, just not vittatus. you might want to read the whole thread to get an idea of where we left off in the identification.

good point to be honest i hadnt even thought about the possibility of C. suffusus hmmm thats why scorps are fun its never easy lol i still think its c. vittatus im no longer 100% but there seems to be something different i cant quite figure out what yet tho

ps i never said the first one was babycurus i just said it looks simillar but is impossible. lol just thought id clear that up, and in that case im not sure what the second one is but it has to be a centruroide

we're all aware that it's a Centruroide, it's 100% not a vittatus though.

I own a ton of vittis. click here and you'll see clearly the burglar mask that's missing from species number two on this thread