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 Guess whats Gravid?

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tdark1
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PostSubject: Guess whats Gravid?   8/1/2011, 9:19 pm

Hello,

Just wanted to share this picture! I know it is hard to tell since my camera sucks, but this female is in fact gravid, it is easy to see the brood inside of her, I just wish I had a good camera skills!

I also enjoy the fact that this is A. Crassicauda and it doesn't seem that there are many of them around currently!






P.S. - I did not breed her, my friend (who owns a Reptile Store) had a very large shipment and she was one of only 2 gravid female A. Crassicauda's!
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Bedlam
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/1/2011, 9:35 pm

Congratulations Very Happy
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Streettrash
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/1/2011, 9:50 pm

Nice bro!
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pluto
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 6:46 am

I hope for you it is, but are you sure its not a bicolor? Its pincers are too long and fine to be crassicauda.
Anyway, gz! A very nice scorpion and gravid all the way :-D


Last edited by pluto on 8/2/2011, 7:14 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 6:52 am

very nice mate Very Happy

ahe you got round to making that cross breed andro yet pluto?
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pluto
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 6:58 am

Noes!!! Mauritanicus are still i2 lol
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tdark1
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 11:54 am

pluto wrote:
I hope for you it is, but are you sure its not a bicolor? Its pincers are too long and fine to be crassicauda.
Anyway, gz! A very nice scorpion and gravid all the way :-D

Oh yes most certain its not a Bicolor, in person from different angles she looks redish/brown and not fully Bicolor black. Also there is the fact that I looked through about 30-40 Bicolor's yesterday, saw 10+ gravid females. Bicolor's are TINY compared to these monsters, these guys make Bicolor's look very very small...

Additionally, he sold some of his shipment to these large online dealers, as such, some of the A. Crassicauda you see online from the big guys, originated with this shipment. Hope this helps, but Pluto, these things DWARF an adult Bicolor in size alone.

P.S. - My camera sucks, wish I could get a good picture!
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pluto
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 1:01 pm

Well I cant say anything more without a clearer picture, but this is a crassicauda (the pinchers are fully brown coloured, not just the fingers)
It could be a color morph, but I doubt it. Most likely its the image that is playing a game on the eyes then.


Its easy though. Look at the third segment of the tail counting from the telson. Count the granulated 'rows' carinae on it. And look at its shape. If it is round you dont even have to count. If it has on the side of it more than 3 rows (up middle row and row below its not crassicauda)




I just bought 5 Crassicauda, small ones. Very rare, hopefuly a couple comes out of them. But anyway, I dont post this to put a stop on your enthousiasm dude, dont get me wrong there!


Last edited by pluto on 8/2/2011, 2:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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tdark1
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 1:24 pm

My male is practically a ringer for the second picture. My camera sucks, so do my camera skills, the prior picture is pretty well known on the web. But its kind of funny how large they are compared to Bicolor's... These guys are 300% larger then Bicolor (just an estimation).

My buddy is going to bring over his DSLR or whatever pretty soon (all I know its a $1,000 camera and he knows how to use it). As such, I should have good pictures of my animals when he gets off his [buttocks]!!

Thanks,

Rob

P.S. - Pluto, congrats on your purchase.
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leiurusSaleen820
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 2:24 pm

Congrats Bro

Hopefully it is A. crassicauda and has a giant brood.
Are you going to be selling any of the babies ?
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Envyizm
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 2:25 pm

Judging from the thin chela from the specimen pictured, your Androctonus is just a large bicolor. Most buthid species have general range of growth, but there are certain individuals that can exceed this "range". To clarify with the "big shot" statement: A lot of the big shots in the hobby often make wrong identification of the species that they sell. Most are going off the same easily available information that you are going off of (It a lot bigger than most bicolor I've seen, its gotta be something else!).
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pluto
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 3:07 pm

I am inclined to say my second picture there (the one from Syl) is even a Mauritanicus too.. Its all so hazy to get the species right.
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tdark1
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 4:14 pm

Envyizm wrote:
Judging from the thin chela from the specimen pictured, your Androctonus is just a large bicolor. Most buthid species have general range of growth, but there are certain individuals that can exceed this "range". To clarify with the "big shot" statement: A lot of the big shots in the hobby often make wrong identification of the species that they sell. Most are going off the same easily available information that you are going off of (It a lot bigger than most bicolor I've seen, its gotta be something else!).

An entire shipment... Of Crass mislabeled.. ALL of them 3-4x the size of the 40+ Bicolor's that came in the shipment as well (lots of gravid Bicolor females). I'm inclined to say my camera sucks as I've not ever seen Bicolor's the size of A.A... And honestly, I see alot of Bicolor at his shop, they are very very common there!

Oh well, I'm tired of defending myself, I trust that the shipment, I trust the fact that he had only a tiny portion of A. Crass compared to the Bicolor (which would make sense due to the rarity), I trust that they also were about 5x the price of A. Bicolor (wholesale wise), I also trust that I saw the LARGEST gravid female Bicolor and a rather large Bicolor male for the matter, in each instance they were about half the size of the SMALLEST A. Crass in the shipment. Not inclusive of some of the GIANTS that were sold the first day (retail out of his store front); while they were in his shop (I was still being a moron and debating if I wanted them, and he let a couple go, that were truly HUGE, I regret not getting these guys, however I'll settle for a gravid female)... That's not a coincidence.

It was only when I talked with Pluto and he was describing how truly rare they were to find, I did some additional research on the numbers of the animals that came in and found Pluto was dead on the money. Thank you.

Rob
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 7:09 pm

tdark1 wrote:
Envyizm wrote:
Judging from the thin chela from the specimen pictured, your Androctonus is just a large bicolor. Most buthid species have general range of growth, but there are certain individuals that can exceed this "range". To clarify with the "big shot" statement: A lot of the big shots in the hobby often make wrong identification of the species that they sell. Most are going off the same easily available information that you are going off of (It a lot bigger than most bicolor I've seen, its gotta be something else!).

An entire shipment... Of Crass mislabeled.. ALL of them 3-4x the size of the 40+ Bicolor's that came in the shipment as well (lots of gravid Bicolor females). I'm inclined to say my camera sucks as I've not ever seen Bicolor's the size of A.A... And honestly, I see alot of Bicolor at his shop, they are very very common there!

Oh well, I'm tired of defending myself, I trust that the shipment, I trust the fact that he had only a tiny portion of A. Crass compared to the Bicolor (which would make sense due to the rarity), I trust that they also were about 5x the price of A. Bicolor (wholesale wise), I also trust that I saw the LARGEST gravid female Bicolor and a rather large Bicolor male for the matter, in each instance they were about half the size of the SMALLEST A. Crass in the shipment. Not inclusive of some of the GIANTS that were sold the first day (retail out of his store front); while they were in his shop (I was still being a moron and debating if I wanted them, and he let a couple go, that were truly HUGE, I regret not getting these guys, however I'll settle for a gravid female)... That's not a coincidence.

It was only when I talked with Pluto and he was describing how truly rare they were to find, I did some additional research on the numbers of the animals that came in and found Pluto was dead on the money. Thank you.

Rob

Rob,

I've been around a long time and have seen countless importers and exporters mislabel animals. My information wasn't just some call to arms forcing you "defend" whatever you think you're defending. You obviously believe your friend got them in and you're sticking to it, then so be it. There is no need to make things more serious than they need to be, nor did you need to direct your previous comment my way. My point was this: the Chela (claws) of your so called crassicauda isn't consistent with the description of the species or the examples of the species I've personally seen with my own eyes. It's a very gravid specimen whatever it may be. Good luck to you.

Sean
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tdark1
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 8:02 pm

Sean,

No worries, I'm not meaning to be an a-hole, or defend something that's not true! If its not A. Crass its not, period, I do not like mislabeling or misleading! However, just knowing how many A. Bicolor's I've seen (over 100's of WC animals), full adults, on and off since 2002 and then seeing the over 40+ adult A. Bicolor's that came in this shipment, the "A. Crass's" were/are at least 300%-400% larger (some of them were HUGE, mine are the size of an adult A.A...). I don't know what I would attribute to that, since even the various locales of A. Bicolor don't approach that in size...

I really do wish I had a good camera with good skills, like I said before I will post some pics when my buddy comes over with his Nikkon DSLR.

P.S. - Please don't feel like I'm closed to suggestion, its just the evidence at the area points in only one way, as several large (very) reputable invert dealers had animals that were a part of this shipment and have confirmed their animals to be A. Crass... and sold then under the Arabian Giant Black Fat Tail or something, as their size is just sooo massive!

Rob
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/2/2011, 9:17 pm

tdark1 wrote:
Sean,

No worries, I'm not meaning to be an a-hole, or defend something that's not true! If its not A. Crass its not, period, I do not like mislabeling or misleading! However, just knowing how many A. Bicolor's I've seen (over 100's of WC animals), full adults, on and off since 2002 and then seeing the over 40+ adult A. Bicolor's that came in this shipment, the "A. Crass's" were/are at least 300%-400% larger (some of them were HUGE, mine are the size of an adult A.A...). I don't know what I would attribute to that, since even the various locales of A. Bicolor don't approach that in size...

I really do wish I had a good camera with good skills, like I said before I will post some pics when my buddy comes over with his Nikkon DSLR.

P.S. - Please don't feel like I'm closed to suggestion, its just the evidence at the area points in only one way, as several large (very) reputable invert dealers had animals that were a part of this shipment and have confirmed their animals to be A. Crass... and sold then under the Arabian Giant Black Fat Tail or something, as their size is just sooo massive!

Rob

Yeah, I can definitely see how these abnormally large Androctonus could appear to be crassicauda given the ranges of both species overlap into Egypt where a lot of these imports are coming from. Maybe its the picture that is throwing me off or something. It is possible for it to be either. I'd advise you not to pair it with your male cf crassicauda until you confirm what species it actually is. I will say that whatever it is either bicolor or crassicauda, if you get babies, I'll definitely be open for trading. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 12:20 am

There are different types of A. bicolors too, there's one type that grows half the size of the normal. Not sure who has the small one's on here, maybe pluto. Need a more clear pic but going straight off of the blurry picture alone looks like my adult bicolors and seems to have all the bicolor markers and none of a crassicauda's. but reserved judgement until a more clear pic turns up Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 2:43 am

It'll be good if the clear pictures has a quarter or measuring tape/ruler in it for size reference.
Whatever it is.. gravid is always good news Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 4:55 am

its clearly a chelonia mydas agassizii

congrats on the gravidity!
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 9:16 am

shining wrote:
its clearly a chelonia mydas agassizii

congrats on the gravidity!

The famous tennisplaying scorpion?
Its a good thing Rob puts these on this forum. A while back I encountered the same thing.

Clearly they were bicolor, but they were a lot larger, not just by a margin. Advertised as crassicauda, even with a price difference (not much though)

My only guess is that they are bicolor longecarinatus (which is supposed to grow larger). Maybe a real pro can chime in.

A scorpion with a 'round tail' is no crassicauda.

That said, Bicolor are prettier than crassicauda anyway I love you


Last edited by pluto on 8/3/2011, 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 9:18 am

congrats Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 5:20 pm

I got off of my lazy butt and ATTEMPTED to work this camera I had on my desk, its from 2005 and its only a 4MP Sony. However, it seems I garnished better photos through this camera then my 2010 Nikon CoolPix 10MP =(.

So for Sean, Sam and everyone else (GS PLEASE) could you please take a look at these photos I snapped today and let me know what you think? Its hard to tell in the photos I know, but the girl is about the size of an adult A. A....




Decent side shot




This photo REALLY makes me think she is truly A. Crass...




Sorry the photo is a bit blurry, it was a 6+ year old Sony digital point and shoot!

Thanks,

Rob
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 5:22 pm

I know its hard to compare Pluto's pics posted as both of those are Male...
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 6:10 pm

I don't know man. The chela look too slender to be crassicauda in my opinion.

Here's a LINK to a thread with a comparison of crassicauda to bicolor.
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PostSubject: Re: Guess whats Gravid?   8/3/2011, 6:19 pm

Found a pretty good website describing various Andros.

Androctonus bicolor: Legs and pedipalps blackish brown. Carapace with granules and carinae moderately marked. Tergites a few granulated with carinae well marked.

Androctonus crassicauda: Pedipalps reddish brown, legs yellow ochre. Carapace with granule and carinae well developed.

Here is the link:

http://bultel.p.free.fr/En/Androctonus%20sp.htm
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