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 Bark scorpions uk. No permit

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Cyanide
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PostSubject: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 8:11 am

My council are not aware of these little buthids being listed for DWA so th chances of any pushishment for keeping them is small.

This is what they say.

Hello William.
The legislation you should be referring to is -
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2008/302/schedule/made

As far as I know this doesn't include bark scorpions.
Should you wish to proceed with an application for scorpions on the DWA
list, see -
http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/AnimalWelfare/anw/anw_dangerous_wild_animals.asp


Current fee is 204 + the cost of a vet's inspection as well


Last edited by Cyanide on 6/22/2011, 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 8:24 am

Dont they say... BUTHID IS NO GO?
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Peloquin
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 8:35 am

They are Buthid and are def on the list.
As much as I'd love some of the DWA scorps and as easy as they are to get, the risk/ fine is far to great.
I personally wouldnt risk it but it's your call mate.
Look in the For sale section. Some very nice scorps for sale in (I think) Germany.
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*~BEX~*
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 8:51 am

Peloquin wrote:
They are Buthid and are def on the list.
As much as I'd love some of the DWA scorps and as easy as they are to get, the risk/ fine is far to great.
I personally wouldnt risk it but it's your call mate.
Look in the For sale section. Some very nice scorps for sale in (I think) Germany.

+1
got to go with pel on this one Smile


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Last edited by *~BEX~* on 6/22/2011, 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cyanide
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 8:55 am

Just how dangerous is a bark scorpion? I am aware of the status of buthidae. But I may be willing to take a hit here
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 8:57 am

It depends which one. I THINK they range from 2/5 on the venom scale to 5/5.
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Cyanide
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 9:20 am

E mails and such like won't bring up the issue. Actions that deserve reactions. Positive or negative. Still a reaction is a reaction and will receive exposure. If you Refuse the fine you will spend a few months in prison. Now, this is where things would get interesting. If they done research(which they will have to do before locking someone up) they will find that Centruroides sculpturatus isn't very dangerous. Granted painful. But not lethal ( possibly on par with some pedes, which non of which are listed DWA)and therefore non dangerous and should be excluded from the list.

My point being that some are non dangerous and you cannot possibly be jailed. This is a flaw in their law.

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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 9:26 am

C.gracilis can range from 2-4+ depending which area they are from The venom toxicity of this scorpion is moderate to significant. When placed on a scale from 1-5, where 1 is mildly toxic venom and 5 is extremely toxic venom, it is a 2 when originating in Florida, but a 4 when originating in Central or South America.


s

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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 9:31 am

Damn the man! scratch
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Cyanide
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 10:45 am

This thread isn't aimed at dangerous buthids or keeping safer types illegally in secret.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 11:11 am

I wouldn't risk it mate. Councils always have secret agendas to make money.

When someone says "as far as I know" they really mean "I'm going to ok it, then go look it up and fine you".

I'd love to keep some buthids, but I'm not paying that damn license fee.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 12:24 pm

no..
like bex i think.. maybe pel said (i'm too lazy to scroll lol) they all range in venom levels, but defra was too lazy to only include some buthids.
it is your decision to illegally keep them, on your head be it if you get caught. if the council okays it though, and you keep ALL of the emails saying that YES you can keep any buthid, then go for it.. just keep the emails for reference i guess.
anybody yay or nay this?

once i'm 18, i'll be looking down the DWA alley. most buthids are beatiful.. i'd love to keep them now, even if i was old enough.. i agree, the damn license fee. it varies from council-to-council thougb right?
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 1:00 pm

Hey Tom.

Read the posts. I'm not talking about dangerous buthids only non dangerous mainly Centruroides sculpturatus(Arizona Bark Scorpion) and how your defence would hold up in court. (on purposely contacting authorities yourself) My opinion is that it would hold pretty well. Given they aren't dangerous even though they're part of a controlled species. It is flawed and debatable.

Did you know murderers walk free because of flaws and holes in laws?

As for keeping them as pets illegally there is no DWA raid squads or telepathic masterminds to find them. And as I've said before. The chances of getting caught keeping sculpturatus is virtually impossible.

Saying all of that 200 quid in this day and age isn't a lot of money and the vet bill isn't gonna cost that much. I'd say all in 300 - 500 quid for DWAL licence in Aberdeen.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 1:12 pm

Someone in Manchester on another forum was billed around 320 for a 20 min vet visit.
As for them not having telepathic masterminds... they dont need one now. You email'd them. I may be wrong but surely they could get your address from your email address or something and if it was me there (remember- they are trying to get all the cash they can) I'd be thinking " now... he enquired about dangerous wild animals... hmmmm.... gotta be worth looking into".
My mate had a licence a few years ago. he had it for about 5 years (was a yearly thing then) and was getting people knocking for 4 or 5 years after he sold the snakes wanting to check why he didnt update the licence.
IMO it just isnt worth the aggro. The fines, last I heard were around 5000. Not worth it for a 20 scorp.
If I was thinking of hots I'd jst get one... FAR less aggro and worry.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 1:17 pm

that's not what i'm saying though.
i'm saying that all buthids are dwa, you will be faced with the same challenges for keeping a less hot species, as you would with a far more dangerous species.

and if you get something that has been signed or similar by somebody of authority in the council/government, then it is their fault if you end up keeping them.

i've emailed defra recently, with regards to buthids and dwa. hoping for a positive reply, not likely though

also now a days, police helicopters have infra red cameras. if you have a warmer room, you will probably have a visit from the police
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 1:24 pm

Yeah, it's the same fine for keeping a relativly harmless scorpion as it is for a tiger.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 1:27 pm

^exactly.
dwa is dwa.
for good reasons though.. i guess.
wan't the dwa originally to help conserve the big cats etc?
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 1:38 pm

The heat sensitive cameras are for weed farms which glow like you'd never believe. So youd be getting raided for that and the drug squad don't know a parabuthus from an emp. Highly doubtful that a couple of bark scorpions would need a set up of hydroponics that powerful.

I hear what your saying about the DWA cats and scorps mate. It's a lot of stress for a tiny scorpion. But you may be excused if the animal is proven to be non dangerous.
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Billy No Mates
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 2:02 pm

That's the problem. They consider anything remotely painful to be dangerous, and considering a bark scorpion could give you a brutal sting, they'd consider it dangerous.

Yes, it's a flawed debate, however, everyone has a different reaction to stings, and the way DEFRA see it, if someone has died as a result of a sting (even if it's just one person) they'll blacklist it.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 2:27 pm

Sometimes it takes extremes to change things. This is what I'm
Proposing. If you can force them to look into the buthidae family they will find not all are dangerous. Not dangerous means non DWA. Small chance but still a chance. Has anyone ever challenged this law directly?
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 3:53 pm

Force them to do something?

Haha, fat chance. It's incredibly likely they'd just fine you several times over.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 4:08 pm

The thing with fines is you can refuse to pay them in exchange for time in jail (IMO 3 month is better than a five grand fine) They can't however fine you several times for being difficult. Every board involving scorpions has many topics on DWA scorps. Thats a lot of people wanting the same thing and numbers count. The uk is known to just accept things though. So I guess nothing will ever change.

**downs caustic soda**
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 4:26 pm

The thing is mate, there are over sixty million people in this country, and probably not even one million keep scorpions. So yes, we do have numbers, lots, just not enough to convince some imbecile sat behind a desk.

You could file a petition, I'm not going to say you shouldn't, because some hope is better than none, and you'd definitely see my name on there, but I wouldn't be surprised if the person it goes to just shreds it.

The main problem is DEFRA being lazy, and if something requires a bit of effort, like amending the DWA list would do, they won't do it.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 4:39 pm

Stranger things have happened. Defra still have to go through a court to fine you. They can't just turn up at your door and be like "hi you have a bark scorpion. Five grand please" no. You tell your solicitor you won't accept a fine because your bark scorpion wasn't dangerous. Thus the scorpion in question gets looked at. Not the buthidae family. The specic scorpion you were keeping. There is a possibility you will be excused. Therefore excusing the scorpion also. This is what I want to find out. Petitions don't do anything. You need to stand in the line of fire to get hit or more importantly get the important miss. So to speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Bark scorpions uk. No permit   6/21/2011, 5:31 pm

and also, if the police helicopter FLIR pics up the heat, they'll be looking and i imagine they would let DEFRA know if you are keeping any suspect animals.
i think pel has had a run in with the 5-0. confirm this please mark Very Happy
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