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shining
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PostSubject: help with heating   5/28/2011, 9:46 pm

10gl 20l x 10w x 12h glass
cocofiber and moss
screen lid with fiber glass covering 8/10
ventilated side is on the cool side

with uth under it delivers
with uth onside fails(stays same as room temp inside tank)

my room temp is always 78-85 degrees.

emperors are burrowers i shouldnt put it under the tank right???
heat lamp dries air out.
what works for you ladies and gents?
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Streettrash
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 10:10 pm

Build yourself a false bottom and use a heat lamp. With a false bottom, and the plexi covering the top your humidity should be fine, just add water as needed. It's hard to heat an emp tank with a heat mat alone. You should never heat scorps from the bottom up since they retreat when they are too hot.
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shining
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 10:25 pm

what is this false bottom??

heatlamp and uth??heat lamp through day?off at night?
cut circle for heat lamp or just heat straight through plexi?
hmmm the latter sounds like a baked scorpion..
i know nothing of these guys and want the best care for em.
they are a lil trickier than snakes id say.

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shining
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 10:29 pm

this scorpions a jerk!!!
she pushed alot of soil in their water dish twice already!?!?!? Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 10:37 pm

Emperors like it pretty warm. 85 to 95 F during the day, with a drop off at night. I have two heat lamps on mine. One is on 24/7 and the other gets turned off at night. Make sure that you get a digital thermometer for accurate air temperature readings. The one that's on all the dime is directly over the top of the hot side. It's about 12 inches away and shines through the plastic straight down. The other is off to the side of the tank about 18" away and is only used to elevate the daytime temperature.

Here's a video about making a false bottom as well as heating. It's a bit long, and the guy likes to ramble but I think it'll help you.


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Streettrash
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 10:38 pm

They should stop doing that once they get settled in.
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 10:43 pm

ahhhhhh it pisses me off cause i gotta clean it up everytime!
thanks man ill watch that video right now.
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/28/2011, 11:12 pm

A couple notes on that video.

He glued screen over the opening to the jar so the scorpions can't fall in if they get under the dish. You can also use pvc pipe for the opening it doesn't have to be huge like that. I don't use anything, I just overflow the water dish until I can see the gravel getting full.

Don't fill the gravel all the way to the substrate. It'll make your ground soggy. Fill it about half way or leave a buffer zone. The water will evaporate up through your dirt creating humidity.
This emulates a natural humidity gradient in the soil.

Heating from above emulates the natural heat they experience in the wild. Unlike reptiles that bask on hot rocks and such, scorpions do not need to do that. They regulate body temperature by moving up or down their burrows. Up for warmth, and down to cool off.

You should also give them a good six inches of dirt that is well packed to construct burrows. They usually dig under rocks or wood. Just make sure they are secure, and start a little narrow hole underneath for them. They'll do the rest.

Finally, enjoy your pets man!

I'm taking off for a while so I won't be able to answer any questions for a few hours.

Hope this helped!

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shining
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 1:07 pm

"Heating from above emulates the natural heat they experience in the wild. Unlike reptiles that bask on hot rocks and such, scorpions do not need to do that. They regulate body temperature by moving up or down their burrows. Up for warmth, and down to cool off."

as that is true for alot of snakes,my snake is a ball python and according to the herpvet and my research this snake does exactly the same thing.steals the burrows of its prey(while scorpions make their own mostly) and squats in it til time to move on at night.all the bps in captivity thrive without those burrows with just tight fitting hides and a temperature gradient.
but i guess because the bp is not naturally a "burrower" and has heat pits to see the heat and "belly heat" is more beneficial to it and adapts better to the captive setup.rather than the emperor who radiant heat is more beneficial to.but i do believe my bp would love a false bottom and a waterfall too bounce
i keep my bp like so
cool side 78-81 degrees
middle warms up getting closer to
hot side 87-91 degrees
humidity 50-60%
humidity during shed 60-70%
with a humid hiding spot of 80-90% available at all times

something else i find interesting is the bp and emperor scorpion come from the same place central and west Africa,Togo,Benin,Ghana.they are both nocturnal.do these species meet in the wild???

my stupid friend made a comment of getting them together for a pay per view battle.needless to say i wont be telling him anymore of the cool pets i obtain nor is he ever f*****g coming over.but the seed had been planted.the seed of negative thought. ocd paranoia ten fold.
affraid omfg!!!!what if someone breaks into my house while noones here and decides to be a superjerk and put the three in the same tank together??are emperors a serious threat to bps???my bp is 2'' long and approx as thick as one of those exo terra night glo bulbs.my emperors are young about 5'' head to tail.
i know its a horrorible thought but worst case scenario always intrudes.

back to the topic.i wont be able to do that "false bottom"til payday (which is this upcoming friday the 3rd).would Countess and Sidious suffice 5 more days with a hot side of 82 degrees?
with uth humidity stays in between 80-90%
with uth and 50 watt infrared heat glo temp raises to 105 and humidity just dissipates to 40%
with uth and 25 watt night glo(i know i shouldnt use it cause of uvs just testing for heat capabililites)humidity drops to 40% as well

if they could survive the 5 day wait for the false bottom what approach should i make?
oh and when i do set up the false bottom do i use mesh screen or some other filter to seperate the gravel and soil or put the soil directly on top of the gravel?
trash could you send me a pic of your waterbowl you speak of?im having a problem visualizing overfilling a waterbowl to pour water into the tube that leads to the gravel.

i apologize for the long post and random questions.the bp and emp husbandry,and comparisons were just trivia and i definately do not intend on introducing them to eachother,allow anyone to do so,or try to house them similarly cause each have their specific care that needs to be met(just in case that negative thought crossed anyones minds ha).
thanks
mark
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Streettrash
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 1:19 pm

The temperatures you mention for your snake sound perfect for an emp. With the uth and the bulb temps hitting 105, it's too hot. Maybe try to just use the bulb with no uth and put it a bit closer if you can to bump the temp a bit, or put the uth on the side at the top or something.

As for my water bowl, it is just a normal water bowl. I do not have the tube leading into the false bottom. I just pour water in the dish until it overflows into the substrate and filters down through into the gravel.

As far as using a hygrometer to check the humidity levels goes, you'd be better off just making sure the dirt is moist. If you grab some off the top at ground level and give it a good squeeze, you should be able to get a drop or two of water out of it. This will be perfect. For now you can just pour water right on the substrate.

In any case I have no doubt that you'll be able to keep them alive until payday!
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 1:27 pm

uth is on the side.
ill see how just a heat bulb works.

could plexi glass withstand a heat lamp sitting directly on top of it?
melt?start a fire?produce fumes?
is that a bad idea?

my snakes heating element is dimmered with a rheostat.payday my snake gets a thermostat and scorps get rheostat.
and who said snakes dont share. Laughing
thanks again Street for you wisdom
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 1:33 pm

It'll probably melt. Got any old picture frames laying around? Take the glass. Maybe cruise the yard sales for one...

As for your question on the screen over the gravel, many people use fiberglass screen for this. It's not necessary, but helps keep the water clean.

I see you are in Arizona... Ever see any C. sculpturatus there? The Arizona Bark Scorpion?
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 1:35 pm

Making a false bottom is not a HAVE TO DO. But it's better to do it in the long run, I am in a hurry so couldnt read all, what I can say is that, yes they will survive 5 days without a false bottom. I like it you try your best for the animals!

Just water the substrate more if you dont have a false bottom
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shining
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 1:41 pm

do unto others as you would unto you.that includes animals,insects,and plants.
thanks pluto
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 5:49 pm

yeah i thoughtd melt and produce fumes.
no i dont i actually tried the glass frame thing when i was working on using a heat lamp with my snake.through that out the window cause Marley could reach the super hot glass.

so this seems to work for now.
plexi glass to cover entire screen and taped down,leaving a 7''x7'' square for ventilation and that 50w infrared heat glo to throw some heat into. 91 degree air temperature on hot side,cooler side 82 degrees.the air humidity is 40 percent but burrowers have tons of humidity in all that moist soil to come out at night to a naturally dryer air.oh and heat lamp sharing rheostat with Marley uth.
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 6:32 pm

oh yeah i fotgot to answer your question street.
yeah i see those bark scorpions all the time.they currently like to crash my friends parties at his apartment,i also see em alot when i go to the mountains and when i go to my cousins town house.its brutal!!!
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 6:35 pm

Sounds dialed. Perfect man, good work!
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 6:37 pm

I have the same size tank. Mine is a 10 gallon aquarium from Topfin. It has a plastic lip around the top with
a 1/4 inch ledge. For a top, I built an aluminum window screen that fits snugly into the ledge. The materials
(from Home Depot) cost about what Petsmart was charging for a wire mesh terrarium top (~$15). I wasn't
impressed with the quality of the Petsmart top which is why I built my own. To retain humidity (and heat),
I use 8x10 inch picture frame panes that I trimmed down to fit under the screen top. Acrylic is a better thermal
insulator than glass and easier to work with (no bloody fingers). You can cut acrylic by scoring it with a utility
knife and snapping it along the score line.

For heating, I use an 6x8 inch heat mat (8W) and a 65W IR heat lamp on a dimmer. At first, I tried just using
the heat mat and found, as others have noted, it doesn't do a very good job of heating the enclosure. Heat
mats produce conductive heat which basically just heats the glass. IR lamps produce radiant heat which travels
throughout the enclosure. The heat we receive from the sun is radiant heat. I have my lamp sitting on the screen
top in the corner diagonally across from the heat mat. I don't have any acrylic under the lamp because it will
melt.

I also found that polystyrene insulation board placed over the sides and back of the tank helps prevent heat loss
through the glass. I tried using corrugated cardboard but it doesn't work as well. In the future, I'm going to try
using vinyl floor tiles to line sides and back of the enclosure on the inside. The tiles are cheap (about $1 a piece),
have an adhesive backing, and come in several wood and rock patterns.

Coralife and Zilla both make nice small digital thermometers that sell for around $7. I have several and they work
great. Stay away from the stick-on strip thermometers; they're hard to read and not very accurate.
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/29/2011, 6:40 pm

Nice man. I love those little devils. If your ever feeling adventurous you could collect some and send them my way. Only one state away...
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/30/2011, 3:44 am

thanks for your input sheeban.
undertank heaters only work well when placed under the tank "belly heat" and work against what the scopion needs.
radiant is good for the air temperature.
ill be picking up some acrylic as opposed to plexi glass this weekend when i go for some wire mesh for the "false bottom".

how would i even ship them???
bark scorpions are feisty lil things man ill tell you.they make me laugh until you get stung.
which luckily and unluckily wasnt me.
my emps heat peaked at 93 today.

heres another question
should my heatlamp be placed in the middle or on one side to offer some heat gradient in the air?
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/30/2011, 3:45 am

i apologize,sheebeen not sheeban
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shebeen
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/30/2011, 10:49 am

I used acrylic because it was cheap. The 8x10 inch panes were only $2 a piece and close to
the size I needed. Plexiglass would have work just as well, but it was much more expensive.
Some people just use plastic wrap but I was afraid it would melt if it got too close to the heat
lamp. I discovered as a child that Wonder Bread bags and toasters don't mix. Very Happy

It's recommended to place the heat lamp at one end of the tank to provide a heat gradient.
I keep my house pretty cold so I use a heat pad on the cool end to keep it ~80F and a heat
lamp on the warm end to keep it ~88F.
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pluto
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/30/2011, 11:26 am

shebeen wrote:
I used acrylic because it was cheap. The 8x10 inch panes were only $2 a piece and close to
the size I needed. Plexiglass would have work just as well, but it was much more expensive.
Some people just use plastic wrap but I was afraid it would melt if it got too close to the heat
lamp. I discovered as a child that Wonder Bread bags and toasters don't mix. Very Happy

It's recommended to place the heat lamp at one end of the tank to provide a heat gradient.
I keep my house pretty cold so I use a heat pad on the cool end to keep it ~80F and a heat
lamp on the warm end to keep it ~88F.

lol!
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Streettrash
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/30/2011, 12:45 pm

shining wrote:
.

how would i even ship them???
bark scorpions are feisty lil things man ill tell you.they make me laugh until you get stung.

Ha ha! They sure are. That's why I love them. I'll actually be down there in a couple months, so I'll be trying to catch some of my own, but failing that...

Just put them in little deli condiment cups with lids, pack with paper towel so they can't shake around, and shoot them up here in a priority mail flat rate box.
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PostSubject: Re: help with heating   5/30/2011, 3:54 pm

what part of az are you coming too?
maybe we could meet up and hunt the lil buggers.
and or next time i go to my friends apt ill catch a couple.
i see this guy at work alot he could probably catch me some and bring em to me as hes not afraid of em.he catches em all the time.
but i would have to keep em outside in a hot locker or car where it reaches and exceeds99 degrees for about four hours til i could take em home and package em.is this illegal?????
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