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 Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing

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**GS**
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PostSubject: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/11/2010, 3:12 pm

Hey Guys,

I have gotten myself 2 scorpions few days ago and they are really skinny and starved by the seller..
One of them even has a missing leg.. *sad
Since they're now with me.. i'll be nursing them to good health =)

However, i do required your help to identify them as i have my doubts of whether this is heterometrus Longimanus or Spinifer:

Scorpion 1 (Measuring abt 2 Inch for the body excluding metasoma length)

1) What species is it?

2) What sex is it?

3) Judging from the telson, is it full grown adult already? As i've read somewhere that dark red = adult, but is this the full grown adult "red"? This scorpion only measures about 2 inch for its body .. so i really wonder if its an adult yet..

Pse enlighten me.. Thank you..












Would really appreciate if you can try to comment on my 3 questions above. Thanks alot!


Last edited by GS on 10/27/2010, 6:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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ironman
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/11/2010, 4:34 pm

What do they measure from metasoma to mesosoma bro?
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/11/2010, 4:37 pm

Look male to me but don't know about species... Sorry Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 12:35 am

ironman wrote:
What do they measure from metasoma to mesosoma bro?

+1

It's a little hard to tell based on some of the photos. A clear light photo, a defensive posture stance (Long and Spp's, as I've come to know them, posture differently), and a measurement (above) would grant a lot better info.
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 1:57 am

Send a message to LXDNG79
He's our forum's asian forest scorpion guy Smile

That scorpion looks like a male to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 2:00 am

First one female(heart shaped operculum)
second one male(round operculum)
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 5:07 am

H. laoticus wrote:
Send a message to LXDNG79
He's our forum's asian forest scorpion guy Smile

+1 Alex (LXDNG79) is a genius with anything heterometrus Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 9:34 am

Thanks guys for your replies Smile Yep i have pm Alex already. Guess he should be replying soon Smile

Scott Land: Hey mate, all the pictures above are taken on the same scorpion. I guess should be the camera angle's issue..

Okay, this is the Scorpion no.2 below:

She has a missing leg on her right.. hope she survives..





I'm pretty sure its a she and just wish to know which species she belongs too.. Thanks Smile
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Lester
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 11:49 am

longi ?????
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 1:16 pm

id guess longimanus by the last picture could be rite could be wrong
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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/12/2010, 5:41 pm

If those are indeed H. longimanus... then they are both female.... males look like this...




I doubted as much... if they originate from the mainland Peninsular then they are a H. spinifer...

looks to me like you've got a pair... breed them... after mating separate them... gravid females don't like sharing bed space... LOL

for future reference, H. longimanus is distributed across Borneo and Indonesia... while H. spinifer occurs widely around the highlands of Pahang but may also be found in low-land forest... where the variety is much smaller in size...
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/13/2010, 3:27 am

Thanks Alex! Yup my two new additions are from Malaysia.. so they are spinifers Very Happy

& yesterday i just made my simple communal AFS tank.. i threw in 4 of my AFSs and many small fights break out..

The fights are mostly dominated by the biggest sized female. The small male which i recently acquired, tried to mate the big female by holding her chelas but she kinda powered him by a massive great difference and threw many stings at him too.. Its like watching a WWF match between Kane and 619!

Pictures below:

Below is the small male (2 Inch) in the tank:



Below is the size comparison of the female and male:



My question is, do i continue to leave the male in there? Will it get killed? As i kinda only have one male and i dont mind separating him into his very own tank till he has grown to a bigger size and able to match the adult females (4 Inch) in the communal tank.

Thanks in advance for any replies.. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/13/2010, 4:02 am

wow that female is massive. Is the male even mature yet?
Didn't know you had WWF or WWE (as it's called now) in Asia lol.
I'd also suggest dampening your substrate even more until all of it is a dark color.
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**GS**
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/13/2010, 8:11 am

H. laoticus wrote:
wow that female is massive. Is the male even mature yet?
Didn't know you had WWF or WWE (as it's called now) in Asia lol.
I'd also suggest dampening your substrate even more until all of it is a dark color.

Thanks Mate, yesh i had it nicely dampened after taking the picture taking session Very Happy
Ops my bad.. its WWE.. lolz.

The small male im not sure if its fully adult..

After a day of getting together.. no more fights.. 3 of them even squeezed into a same hide..
Its really nice too see them together.. space saver too!

Thanks to everyone else, the insights are very much appreciated =)
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/14/2010, 6:28 am

if the males chela has bulbously bloomed and the telson is distinctively dark red... then he is... just that he is probably a runt...

i had one from the same brood as several giant females that were half the size, so there are lhuge size variances...

Gravid females should be housed individually... if your female is wild-caught... and behaving aggressive towards males and other females... chances are she is gravid.

Big communal setups only work for juveniles to sub-adults... or from my experiences... several large adult males, that are kept... well-fed with enough space and places to hide... the later being more imperative...
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/14/2010, 9:38 am

Thanks for your reply Alex.

I guess i'm alittle too late.. this is what i saw when i came back from work.. My adult female (Scoop) has eaten my newly acquired sub-adult female (the one with the missing leg) Sad

Picture 1 (Adult female (Scoop) with the male)


Picture 2: (You can see the size variation of the 2 adult females (left is scoop, right is Grum) to the male below them)


The little male doesnt seem full adult to me as you mentioned above, his chela does not seemed bulbously bloomed and the telson color is as shown below, is this considered distinctively dark red?


Btw from the picture 1 (sorry for the gross shot) the male is trying to mate the female.. even though she is.. ehhemm.. eating another female..

1) My question is.. does a male spinifer try to mate a female even though he is yet grown to full adult?

Whether is the two adult females wild caught i'm not sure.. so as the seller who sold them to me (as some sellers are simply resellers..) :/
But i do take some shots when they just arrived at my place. Pictures below:

Adult Female (Scoop):



Adult Female (Grump):


From the pictures above, i'm not sure if they are gravid when they first came to me.. and right now.. they have grown fat probably due to their heavy appetite..

i'm thinking if a female is gravid.. even though she does not eat much.. her stomach will get bigger by the days ? Please correct me if i'm wrong..
btw the two adult females are with me for about 5 weeks since they arrived..

2) Should i separate the females or all of them ? so far after 2 days of communal.. the females now shares the same hide.. probably because they are well fed.. and the male.. always gets a sting or two and thrown aggressively back and forth (due to its light weight) when trying to do the mating dance..

Sry for the long post.. any replies is appreciated. Thanks so much Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/26/2010, 10:57 pm

Just something I figure I should point out... a recent paper i read on Heterometrus communality... for that regards H. fulvipes... but this could well work across the board for all Heterometrus...

I noticed that in earlier pics, the substrate of your enclosure was rather on the dry side... this is one condition in captive keeping may affect the susceptibility of cannibalism. Findings in the paper reveal that Hets kept in moist substrate for long periods of time even without food, rarely resort to cannibalism... in fact the cannibalism index for that control experiment was '0'. Another control experiment of specimens kept in dry sand substrate resulted in cannibalism.

So, for most of you who are keeping Asian Hets in countries with drier climate, it would be advisable to keep the substrate moist at all times. If at all possible, don't allow a chance for the humidity in the enclosure to dissipate completely. Keeping a ready water-bowl does not negate this necessity, though the cannibalism index in this situation would be considerably lower.

After enduring shipping and marginally suitable conditions, most wild caught Heterometrus in my experience will dip their mouth parts in any available water bowl at the first perceived opportunity. In fact, I had one male H. spinifer which I allowed to crawl freely on my work desk, straight out of the box... feisty as it was... I placed a petri dish with water in front of it, and there it stopped to drink for about 10 minutes... allowing me to attend to other things while keeping an eye on it... and it didn't seem anxious to do anything else like crawl off somewhere. When I had its enclosure ready and wanted to coax into a holding cup, its temperament was evidently placated...

So... give these guys gives ample moisture AND water.... they love it. They sometimes stand over a water bowl periodically so that the book lungs will trap evaporating moisture, and unlike bark scorpions, are not inclined to drown. So if you feel that the misting duties are starting to result in arthritis LOL, just pour water right on to the substrate and let it seep to the bottom. I'm aware that some people resort to false bottom setups.. but unless you want to leave you scorpion unattended for months on end, this is not particularly necessary for Heterometrus. Additionally they will dig up the bottom gravel... so I've abandoned my old practice of having a gravel layer at the bottom... Just keep the substrate reasonably soaked and all should be right as rain...

Best Regards and Cheers.
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    10/27/2010, 4:39 am

Thanks Alex, the information you provided is really helpful.
Yup I'll definitely take note of the amount of moisture they need!
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 12:21 pm

wow. this help me alot... good thing ive been keeping my tank super moist... lol at the arthritis, i feel like my hand is gonna fall of every time i mist.
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 2:03 pm

lordpotato wrote:
wow. this help me alot... good thing ive been keeping my tank super moist... lol at the arthritis, i feel like my hand is gonna fall of every time i mist.

lol.. i am there with you man..
As for me.. i have grown tired of misting.. thats when i start pouring water straight in the substrates in order to maintain the humidity.. can last more then 1 week before i had to do it again.
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 3:18 pm

yeah, i find misting not that effective at all. does nothing but exercise your fingers.
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 7:32 pm

ill have the biggest hands on the block if i mist till the end of the year. :hulk:
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 7:37 pm

yeah and a big case of arthritis
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 7:39 pm

or HULKthritis
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus Spinifers: IDs / Sexing    11/7/2010, 7:41 pm

Laughup
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