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 What Did I Do Wrong?

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Roger
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PostSubject: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/4/2010, 1:59 am

This is my communal enclosure:



There are six hides and six inches of substrate with a false bottom setup. Five months ago I bought six adults (two males and four females) and added them to the enclosure all at once. In five months four (maybe five, I haven't seen one of them in weeks, but that's normal) of those scorpions have died in some way and have been eaten at least partially before I learned of their deaths. I've never seen any type of fighting or sparring, and I have cleaned the enclosure with bleach and added new substrate twice since they started dying off. None have ever shown signs of old age before turning up dead and eaten. They were all about the same size when I added them.

I also have a much smaller enclosure in which I was keeping three subadults in similar conditions and two of those have died.

Did I do something wrong or do I just have horrible luck?
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binksyboy3
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/4/2010, 3:35 am

Well it can't be coincidence surely if it happened in the other tank as well.

I think the problem is perhaps what's in your set-up. I.e. Perhaps it's that moss you're using rather than 100% coir or the plants maybe.

Did you ensure that all the bleach was removed each time you cleaned the tank?

What are you feeding them?

Do your tanks have any ventilation?
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/5/2010, 12:01 am

The moss is sphagnum moss. The plants are two Pothos and ... unfortunately I don't know what the other two are anymore.

Yes, all of the bleach was removed and I let it air dry for about an hour before adding the substrate.

I'm feeding them crickets purchased from PetSmart.

The tanks have plenty of ventilation and I've seen no sign of parasites or fungi.

Could the cat's litter box being in the same room be the problem?
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binksyboy3
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/5/2010, 8:26 am

Hmmm scratch , well spahgnum moss is perfectly fine.

Pothos plants haven't seemed to have caused any problems for others so I'd assume they're not the source either.

I doubt it would be the litter box... I'm thinking that perhaps the other plants have something to do with it as I've heard (I don't use plants in mine so I can't say for definite) that there are specific plants such as pothos that are the best to use because they don't require all the nutrients in the soil or give off pores or something like that.

Perhaps someone who knows about them can say whether they could have been a problem or not.
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/5/2010, 11:08 pm

What is the temperature of the enclosure?

What kind of water are you giving them?
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/5/2010, 11:23 pm

75-90.

Distilled.
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/6/2010, 4:46 am

Any household chemicals near the enclosure? Have you or anyone else been spraying anything in the air that may be toxic to them?
Have you sighted any ants near the enclosure? A few of my scorpions died while I looked at them, not knowing that they were getting jumped by a bunch of tiny ants I couldn't see.

Please list any and all materials in the setup. What was the water used to dampen the substrate?
What are those white hides made of?

It's just so bizarre that you've had that many losses and in two separate enclosures.

Any scorpions that appeared gravid? They've been reported to become hostile toward tank mates and kill.

Actually, do you mind taking a few pics of your scorpions? I know it's the emp section, but anything helps, just in case a few or one of them may be mistaken for P. cavimanus since they do appear very similar at times.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/7/2010, 5:18 am

No chemicals, no spraying (but that's why I asked about the litter box - urine, feces, and clay dust), no ants ... but there are gnats.

Materials:
River stone bottom - backed at 450 for 45 minutes.
Eco-Earth substrate.
Sphagnum moss.
2 Pothos, 1 Schismatoglottis, 1 spider plant.
1 cork piece.
4 ceramic hides.
1 ceramic water dish.
1 sunlamp (for the plants, 6-8 hours a day).

I haven't seen any that appear gravid, and I just fed them three days ago so they're in their borrows. I don't like disturbing them and stressing them out, so I'd like to wait to get you the pictures but if you need them ASAP I can start digging.
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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/7/2010, 11:32 pm

Nothing.... you didn't do anything wrong that is a very nicely done enclosure... with adequate substrate.... my sincere compliments....

1. Gravidity in scorpions is hard to determine... so good news inspite of the loss... you will have more LOL Very Happy

2. Females will take out rivals the y determine to me condition... despite what many people say... I think an equal ratio keeps a community happy... you've got that... stick with this for awhile....

*3. at a later you might wanna isolate the females if they become overtly aggressive to their tankmates...
you can leave the males in there... when they are well fed, they won't have issues with each other.... the females on the other hand will have their maternity rooms... awwwww.... gestation may be up to a year with scorpionids... and gravid females are always hungry so stuff them to the brim... until they are filled... then you can leave them be for virtually forever... try one pinky mouse... no more than that... iron vs copper body fluids....

so keep it up... keep humidity high.... heat only lamp on a secluded area away from the hides. Increase in temperature may result in increase aggression... so cycle night and.. day... mist on a frequent basis... keep the moss gleaming with condensation... at all times...

i trust you will have a rewarding keeping experience...
You don't need to good luck when you know you got it right in the first place... scorpions will be scorpions...

cheers
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/7/2010, 11:48 pm

well, I'm stumped because it seems like everything is good.
I'm curious with the pictures, but don't worry about it. Whenever they're out and you can snap a shot that'd be fine. I also use pothos in my setup and I know that isn't a problem because they've been doing fine for over 2 years. I agree, great looking setup Very Happy
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RX8 TuRbo
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/16/2010, 9:00 pm

It seems to be TOO many scorpions in 1 small tank, they're all terrirotorial and only the strong shall survive. Even though there is 6 hides doesnt mean they will use ALL 6 hides. Try use a bigger tank or even perhaps separate half of them.

I am having a problem with scorps as well. mine just hit 3rd instar a few months ago, they just killed one of their siblings, i found her eatin up under neat a log.. freshly killed as well... No

i am making the change tomorrow to divide them, or something... still not sure of it yet.


GL with yours and try to separate Adults.
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anemiaffx
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/16/2010, 10:52 pm

LXDNG79 wrote:
Nothing.... you didn't do anything wrong that is a very nicely done enclosure... with adequate substrate.... my sincere compliments....

1. Gravidity in scorpions is hard to determine... so good news inspite of the loss... you will have more LOL Very Happy


cheers
i was going to suggest this. perhaps the 2 females were prego and decided to kill....
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 12:30 am

RX8 TuRbo wrote:
It seems to be TOO many scorpions in 1 small tank

I don't think you realize how large that enclosure is.
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the lycan mikey
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 12:49 am

Roger wrote:
RX8 TuRbo wrote:
It seems to be TOO many scorpions in 1 small tank

I don't think you realize how large that enclosure is.

what size is the enclosure? (in gallons, im too dumb to convert to L)
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RX8 TuRbo
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 1:26 am

looks like a 15 gallon or 20 gallon to me.. how bigs the tank then?
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 3:40 am

It's a terrarium that measures 40x20x16 (so they didn't tell me gallons since it's not meant for water) but if my math is right is a 50-55 gallon enclosure.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 4:07 am

H. laoticus wrote:
I'm curious with the pictures

Sorry it took so long, and sorry they're not great shots, and sorry I couldn't get a side view or a pectin shot (they won't stand still so I had to use a Tupperware container so they wouldn't run away).





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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 5:33 am

Hi,

thanks for the pictures and don't worry, there was no rush in getting the pictures, I was just curious Smile
this is a little off topic, but does that subadult have mites? It looks like it does on its joints.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 6:21 am

I just dug it out again to check, and yes it does. They weren't there a month ago, I guess this month's feeding contaminated the tank. I can't touch that emp with anything without it freaking out and trying to tag me, so I doubt I can do the vaseline & q-tip thing ... any suggestions?

I need to sterilize the tank as well, yes?
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/17/2010, 4:01 pm

There are quite a few things you can do. Some people actually drown the scorpion in a bowl of water until it's knocked out. They then apply vaseline or use a brush to remove the mites.
Others have tried to put them in very low temperatures (freezer) and then got the mites out, but I personally like the drowning method better as I have performed that on other insects and they seemed to survive without any harm (except crickets lol)
Another method is ordering predatory mites to kill off the bad ones. I don't know how well this one works since I have never tried it nor have I read a full report of anyone doing it, but it's worth a shot.

Try using the cupping method. You can use a stick or long object to push the scorpion into the cup.
You also have to quarantine the scorpion or it may spread to your other scorpions/enclosures.

Yes, you have to sterilize the tank. I believe you can bake all of your substrate in the oven and then clean out the tank with a bleach solution or you can dump out the entire thing and just clean your tank, adding new substrate later.

Remember to bake any wooden hides you have as well and clean the water bowl/decorations in the tank. However, I'm not sure how well baking your cork bark will go as I don't have experience with cork bark. Some people boil their pieces too.

Here is a good thread I found: http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com/the-burrow-in-ghana-emperor-zone-f34/mites-t4938.htm?highlight=mites

and here are the other threads related to mites: http://scorpionforum.darkbb.com/search.forum?mode=searchbox&search_keywords=mites&show_results=topics

The only time I got mites was when I took outside pieces of wood or decoration and placed it inside my tank. Now I don't even risk it and just buy all of my stuff.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   8/18/2010, 2:48 pm

Thank you.
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Roger
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   10/16/2010, 4:01 pm

Roger wrote:
I haven't seen any that appear gravid

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but I moved recently and had to tear apart the terrarium because it's so big. In doing so I was able to dig out the two remaining scorpions and one of them is obviously gravid, so I'm assuming she decided the enclosure was too crowded and killed off the weaker ones.
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H. laoticus
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PostSubject: Re: What Did I Do Wrong?   10/16/2010, 4:41 pm

Roger wrote:
Roger wrote:
I haven't seen any that appear gravid

Sorry to drag this thread up again, but I moved recently and had to tear apart the terrarium because it's so big. In doing so I was able to dig out the two remaining scorpions and one of them is obviously gravid, so I'm assuming she decided the enclosure was too crowded and killed off the weaker ones.

That's pretty normal for a gravid scorpion. They will often kill their tank mates.
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