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 [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens

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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 4:46 am

In response to the many recent questions about the appropriate substrate and housing of Hadogenes paucidends, I'll just share the moderate range of experiences I've had in keeping them.

For my first female I set her up like this from what I had lying around

Substrate is a mix of sand+fine gravel and sprinkled bark chips. Still unconvinced of my initial approach I applied a marked boundary to find out what she preferred.

You may find this a useful strategy for any scorpion if you are unsure

Hides

A wide shallow water dish is usually recommended but I found them to be more accustomed to taking water that seep in through the wood or cracks in rock much like rain shower in the wild.. For assurance this, spray directly on top of the hide until the water trickles down to the scorpion... They will avoid any substantial body contact with the water but they will take a drink.

Ideal Setup

Though scorpions don't distinguish color very well, their pectines underneath give them an intimate sense of surfaces upon which they reside. In this setup, my H. paucidens evidently feel at home. The substrate here is:-
50% - sand
40% - fine gravel
10% - DRY coco fibre or sprinkled bark chips....

As with all scorpions, replicating the conditions as close as possible to their natural environment is essential to their longevity in captivity. It would be great if anyone could get photos of them in their natural habitat in South Africa, as that would help tremendously.

If the conditions are right, they should remain in their hides with few exceptions: -

1. Gravid females do leave their hides to bask under the warm light.


2. Males by contrast usually leave their hides to wander most likely in search of mates

Sexual dimorphism is evident in the male's comparatively longer metasoma (tail... thought it isn't really), and more streamlined abdomen.

Breeding Tank
Though non-communal, breeding pairs can be housed together provided there are at least 1 or more empty hides between them.

A safe way to do this is to put the female in first and let her reside in a chosen hide. As soon as she is stationed, you may barricade her in with a piece of rock/wood/plastic lid before you put in the male. Let the male find his own hide or you can coax him in to the one at the other end of the enclosure from the female. Later (or at night) remove the barricade and stay awhile to observe the first initial contact.

Scorpion mating can be quite aggressive so don't be to hasty to intervene. If the female is willing, she will exit her hide via the males lead and they will do their thing for... you can leave them alone after that. The male may sting the female to calm her down... this is normal. Once they part the male will scurry off in to one of the many extra hides you have provided...

Babies may take forever to arrive. Birth of the litter will be triggered by a sudden drop in temperature and rise in humidity following the seasonal changes in their natural environment.

I hope that helps with the FAQs... Please feel free to post any questions you may have on this thread. If you had any variant experiences from mine, please share them here too... coz I'm also still learning.


Last edited by Scorpion19981000 on 2/3/2013, 6:16 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated title)
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 12:49 pm

Thanks for the info. You had no need to start a new thread, i just needed to know if people liked your substrate and would suggest it for mine or if what i have is good. i have a 50/50 sand and coco fibers mix with repto bark on top. Got about 3 hides for my Male paucidens and he does come out to bathe in the warm spots of the light. Have a shallow water dish as stated and it doesnt add humidity and i HAVE seen him drink from it. Still hasnt eaten and its been almost a week. Gonna give him some time he wont die.
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 1:07 pm

is it all scorpions, or just certain sp. that fast for long periods of time?
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 1:13 pm

Its ok.... I had questions from many others as well (not only on the forum), and I thought that it would be good to open a thread where everyone could share their approaches specifically with this species.

I apologize if I made you feel that I was calling you out... I just wanted to know what anybody who was keeping this scorpion was doing and what were their results. Also because the climate where you keep any scorpion in comparison to its origin, does cause variables which are not addressed in generally established husbandry sheets, regardless of how close you manage to replicate those conditions in captivity.

I was kinda hoping anyone who had local experience with them in the wild.... could tell us a little more about their natural history... particularly also because these are one of the toughest to breed and raise....

You're alright mate
No worries Very Happy

P.S. mikey: I think generally its desert species or those from drier climates that have long fasting periods. This usually depends on the varying availability of prey within the natural environment of any species; species living in a habitat where prey items only are available once a year perhaps, as a basic example. That's why to me personally, the natural history of any exotic animal you keep equates to rewarding keeping, and also because that's my central subject of my fascination with any creature...

Cheers


Last edited by LXDNG79 on 3/11/2010, 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 1:15 pm

Depends on the scorpion. I believe that the hadogens do it regularly because they are used to hot climates without much food around.
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 1:19 pm

Hey man, great write up!

Just one question, How can you tell if a female is mature? I've got a female and a male but the female looks an instar too small and they seemed disinterested in each other
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 1:45 pm

LXDNG79 wrote:


P.S. mikey: I think generally its desert species or those from drier climates that have long fasting periods. This usually depends on the varying availability of prey within the natural environment of any species; species living in a habitat where prey items only are available once a year perhaps, as a basic example. That's why to me personally, the natural history of any exotic animal you keep equates to rewarding keeping, and also because that's my central subject of my fascination with any creature...

Cheers


wow lol i did not think that thought completely through...
so it varies from location to location of whatever species?
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 1:47 pm

anemiaffx wrote:
Depends on the scorpion. I believe that the hadogens do it regularly because they are used to hot climates without much food around.

Hmmmm well, the scorpion files has them down as Hadogenes sp. 2 cited Tanzania as the location while most sources plainly state Southern Africa/South Africa which gives us very little to go on... However I do believe that the climate in those areas based on latitude would not be hot, so much as it is dry and on the cooler side. Tanzania is half-way down the continent quite a ways bit from the equator. Arid and cool would be a more accurate albeit strange refinement; cold desert.... Which might explained why some members like Ladyriotcontrol and Mrfibble successfully produced large broods. I think the all time high-temp of Malaysia could explain the litters mine yielded were starkly small by comparison....

lol, not at all envious of either... but this has posed interesting questions as the effects of 'alien' climates may have on the embryonic development of this scorpion species.

Still I, would say the best thing to do when unsure is provide them an option as this species really does depend on the fluctuating temps of the seasonal changes to regulate their body temperature and life cycles....

Being that this is an increasingly popular species... captive breeding is ever more crucial to the survival of wild populations. Many that are sold in pet stores are wild-caught. In the event that their numbers become imminently terminal, our husbandry efforts are essential in sustaining the species.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 2:03 pm

I wish i could attempt to breed them, but im not allowed anymore scorpions at my house... parents said no
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 3:45 pm

binksyboy3 wrote:
Hey man, great write up!

Just one question, How can you tell if a female is mature? I've got a female and a male but the female looks an instar too small and they seemed disinterested in each other

Stellar question....... well man you got me there, the first time I ever saw instars was when mine popped not long ago. Raising them has been reputedly difficult. Their slow growth rate and long life span, means more of anything can go wrong! LadyRiotControl said it takes approximately 8 months between 2i to 3i; an exercise of patience in itself. I'll have to check out some papers on this, cos I really wanna keep mine going.

Furthermore, their thin metasomas ("tail") break easily during the molting process. I'm guessing this means you have a marginally thin humidity range to maintain consistently: - to low, it snaps; to high it rips. It doesn't help that probably nobody knows what that level is.

These are just two reasons why you never see instars at pet stores. If there was anyone who ever raised an instar to full maturity, or even from sub-adult.... i would really like to hear from that person (hint, hint) lol rumor is no one has... but I gonna do some research and I'll post up any of my findings.... we all should. 10 pairs of eyes are more likely to find it quicker than one.

But to at least answer part of your question Binks, it is possible that the yellow bands on the tergites only appear close to or at maturity. I've never seen anything between 2i and adult, so anybody can post theirs here if you have one in your keeping... (respect copyright! should you intend to use someone else's lol)
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 4:40 pm

ill check and see what i can find to help yall out...
so far i came across this spanish forum...
but its gonna take a little while to translate what all theyre saying...

if you wanna check it out, its
http://www.fororeptiles.org/foros/forumdisplay.php?f=30

thats the scorpion section...
maybe somebody competently fluent in spanish can check it out, since it will take me quite a moment to translate


and i came across this one, it has a molted H. paucidens in it, but since i know absolutely nothing i dont know what instar it is...the man claims that is 3i...

http://myscorpions.blogspot.com/2008/11/hadogenes-paucidens-molts-to-3rd-instar.html
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 4:51 pm

actually...now that i think about it...i believe thats Mr. Mordax's site...
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 4:56 pm

lol his name is mike but who knows
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 4:59 pm

lol it is?

lol im still relatively new to this forum so im not really on a first name basis with anyone
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 5:15 pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA No hablo (habla?) espanol senior!
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 5:19 pm

lol nope...none at all
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 6:00 pm

idk anyone elses names except mike lol
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 6:02 pm

lol mines Mikey
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 6:09 pm

im jeff
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 6:11 pm

lol nice to meet ya
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/11/2010, 11:23 pm

lol that site is Mr. Mordax's I believe. He has used or is still using that picture for his profile pic. On the site Mike says it's a fresh molt to 3i and yes, it's "No hablo espanol."

btw, great write-up!
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/13/2010, 9:03 pm

Yes, that is indeed my site, that I quit updating a while ago (life happened and our SLR died). Posts after about that one won't have functional pictures because our server is down for the count.

But to get back on-topic, Alex, this thread is awesome enough that I'm moving it to "Guides and Tutorials." Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/14/2010, 1:06 pm

Mr. Mordax wrote:
Yes, that is indeed my site, that I quit updating a while ago (life happened and our SLR died). Posts after about that one won't have functional pictures because our server is down for the count.

But to get back on-topic, Alex, this thread is awesome enough that I'm moving it to "Guides and Tutorials." Very Happy

Thanks Mike....

.... and yea, I hate to be a nag, but lets keep this train on the tracks shall we? Very Happy

and.... a picture is worth a thousand words.... if anyone has done something different for a Hadogenes setup? Pls post a picture and be explicative (not explicit) about your explanations... Questions are welcome... and pls PM me if I forgot to answer your questions... cos I might have scroll-missed it....

Forum discussions are a great way to exchange ideas through the power of asking and sharing!

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/16/2010, 4:54 pm

How often do you think they should be fed? 1 cricket a week or 2 a week?
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PostSubject: Re: [ASF] Hadogenes paucidens   3/17/2010, 2:56 am

About 1.
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