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SeanCasey
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Number of posts : 55
Age : 35
Location : Chino Hills, CA
Registration date : 2008-09-23

PostSubject: Hadrurus discussion   1/14/2009, 6:01 pm

I posted this on ATS, but figured scorpion forum would gather some additional traffic and thoughts.

I find that the more I learn about scorpions the more questions I have. They are such facinating creatures.

Lately I have been trying to learn about the different Hadrurus species and have made a few observations, and asked around regarding some thought. I'd like to receive input from others.

I originally was attempting to determine the difference between H. arizonensis and H. obscurus. The only material I found originally was THE TAXONOMY OF THE GENUS HADRURUS BASED ON CHELA TRICHOBOTHRIA (Soleglad, 1976) and images of each species. Based on this I noticed that H. obscurus chela trichobothria more closely matches that of the H. spadix instead of H. arizonensis.

I also have been looking at some pictures and it looks like on the H. obscurus the "mask" is forward of the position of the typical H. arizonensis "mask" and is less clearly defined and more wedge shaped instead of crescent shaped.

Also it seems that there is some overlap in the ranges of these species. This thought led me to the idea that perhaps the H. obscurus could be the result of a natural mixed breeding of the H. spadix and H. arizonensis.

I asked a few people and eventually was put in contact with Dr. David Sissom who provided me with some interesting information as well.

One comment he made I thought was quite interesting: "H. obscurus does seem to be genetically and morphologically very close to spadix (and may be a synonym of that species), but doesn’t seem to show suspicious intermediacy between spadix and arizonensis."

To me this hints that perhaps H. obscurus is a (for lack of better terms) "pallidus" form of H. spadix.

Another interesting comment was: "However, obscurus could overlap with both spadix and arizonensis and still be a separate species."

So my understanding is that even if H. obscurus is a cross between H. spadix and H. arizonensis (if it is proven to not be a synonym of H. spadix), then it would stand as a seperate species as the traits are unique to that particular grouping of scorpions.

I was also referred by Dr Sissom to Systematics and Biodiversity 6 (2): 205-223, Phylogeny and classification of the giant hairy scorpions, Hadrurus Thorell (luridae Thorell): a reappraisal. Issued June 6th, 2008. A very interesting read that answered a lot of questions regarding Hadrurus.

What are your thoughts on this?
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electrophyste
Babycurus
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Age : 33
Location : Ontario Canada
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PostSubject: Re: Hadrurus discussion   1/18/2009, 1:06 pm

BAHA MORPH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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scorpion111
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PostSubject: Re: Hadrurus discussion   1/18/2009, 1:20 pm

that's too cool... I'd kill for one of those!
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