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 Heterometrus hybrids

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junshern222
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/1/2008, 7:58 am

wow,u have laoticus...can they mate with spinifer?
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Mr. Mordax
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/1/2008, 11:00 am

I split this from the breeding reports because they're not a discussion forum.

It's theoretically possible for scorpions to hybridize; the main obstacle to overcome is whether or not the spermatophore will fit into the female's genital opening. It's more likely to be possible across species within a genus (for example, Heterometrus laoticus x spinifer like you asked) than across genera within a family.

Of course, then you enter into the whole realm of breeding ethics, where some people see hybrids as polluting the hobby's gene pool if they're not properly monitored.

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junshern222
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/1/2008, 11:51 am

Mr. Mordax wrote:
I split this from the breeding reports because they're not a discussion forum.

It's theoretically possible for scorpions to hybridize; the main obstacle to overcome is whether or not the spermatophore will fit into the female's genital opening. It's more likely to be possible across species within a genus (for example, Heterometrus laoticus x spinifer like you asked) than across genera within a family.

Of course, then you enter into the whole realm of breeding ethics, where some people see hybrids as polluting the hobby's gene pool if they're not properly monitored.

so u mean any pair of scorpon can mate if the spermatophore fits?
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LXDNG79
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/1/2008, 11:59 am

There is also a chance that hybrids are sterile i.e. unable to reproduce progeny of their own; like the liger (lion+tiger) which makes the issue less prone to severity but in any case humans have had a bad track record when it comes to messing with mother nature... i.e. Dolly. ('Bang Head')
Bang Head

All the same hybrid Hets should be an interesting prospect if done for the sake of achieving deeper understanding in genetics or just to see what kind of taxanomic features retain in say spiniferXlongimanus.

Nevertheless, whose to say evolution of the natural world is incapable of such possibilities. I'll stand corrected by anyone with a more comprehensive or validated retrospective.... Very Happy
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Kejser
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/1/2008, 12:25 pm

Cross-breedt offspring should be able to produce offspring me thinks.. they aint as complex as Tigers or lions.. or humans..

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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/1/2008, 12:25 pm

LXDNG79 wrote:
Nevertheless, whose to say evolution of the natural world is incapable of such possibilities.

I know that some Asian pitcher plants (Nepenthes spp.) have been known to hybridize in nature. I don't know if North American pitcher plants (Sarracenia spp.) do in nature, but they've been shown to hybridize easily and produce non-sterile offspring.

But then again, those are plants.

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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/2/2008, 11:32 pm

There is also the question whether pairs of different species will be receptive to each other. This may be subjected to the micro variations in pheromones molecules or courting signals given by a male to make a female of the different species receptive.

I have a mix tanks of different water snakes and I've noticed at times where my Enhydris plumbea would perform what appears to be courting attempts on the largest of my Enhydris enhydris but their advances have remained unentertained lol.
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BMustee
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/3/2008, 4:08 am

I would like to chime in on the ethics of hybrid breeding if I may...forgive me for getting a little off the scorp topic.

I'm against it for a number of reasons although much of my hybrid knowledge is “avian” based but I do believe that the issues we have with bids and other exotics will spread to invertebrates
as strict importation laws spread to other species. With Parrots in the United States, CITES and the Wild Bird Importation Act of 1992 pretty much halted importation into the country so what is here is here and that is all we have for breeding stock...and these kinds of restrictions are already beginning with some types of T's and scorps.

With some parrot species numbering only in the hundreds it very well might come down to captive bred birds to repopulate the wild and once a hybrid bloodline is introduced it’s no longer a pure bloodline. Some people take the argument further and complain about “mutation” breeds but those traits can be bred out back to a clean breeding line but there is no breeding out a hybrid once it’s “in the mix”. I do know that many breeds of Mexican T's are no longer being exported and it's all up to captive breeding to keep them in the pet trade and the Emperor Scorp may very well be banned from export as well so that right there is reason enough to try to keep the bloodlines as clean as we can.


My other grief with hybrids is that you are going to get an animal that could very well be very unpredictable. For examples, at my store we have a Harlequin Macaw (Blue & Gold X Greenwing Macaw) and a Mobrella Cockatoo (Moluccan X Umbrella cockatoo). Harley the hybrid Macaw does have more of the baseline temperament of a B&G apart from being a little more assertive than most but he is still a predictable Macaw. However, Moo Moo the hybrid Cockatoo has the negative traits of both breeds of Cockatoos and is so unpredictable everyone but me and one other girl at my work will touch him and with good reason. If there is anything he does not like about you he will attack like a rabid dog. Heck, he’s already attacked like 5 people and with no real reason for it. Granted your not going to really have these issues with Scorpions as long as people treat them with respect but there are the people that handle their scorps and if you mixed a dossal species with an aggressive one someone could get a BIG stinging surprise!

Ok, I ranted and preached enough for one night! Time to get off the Soap Box! Razz
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bjaeger
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/3/2008, 10:14 am

Does the drying method work with alcohol, too?
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus hybrids   12/4/2008, 12:27 am

^Wrong thread, dude. Razz Post it in the right spot and I'll answer it all chemistry-like.

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