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 Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!

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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/6/2014, 8:47 pm

Last August I registered here to find out what scorpion I had found while on a family visit to my in-laws in Java Indonesia. Some remarked that it was a female and that she might be gravid. Well it's offical two days ago she gave birth to a brood. I did not witness the event but had noticed she was more active than usual the last week after I had increased her food supply and also made her environment a lot wetter.

Here are two picks:
06/03/2014 first glimps:


Then this morning 07/03/2014:


Looks like 11 in all.
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Tongue Flicker
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/7/2014, 3:10 am


Wohoho congratulations on your brood sir! Smile
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shaneshac
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/15/2014, 3:43 pm

Congratulations Wink
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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/17/2014, 3:27 am

Well I had no idea that she would just keep going. We are 10 days on and in the days after I put up the pictures more little ones were born we are now up to at least 17 that I can count on the pictures I have taken.
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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/17/2014, 9:55 pm

Very impressive report and happy I read it. Was a bit worried as to why my little ones are still with their mother after 12 days. Now I realize that being born over 4 or 5 days they will come down in the coming days. Furthermore the weather has been a rollercoaster from cool (16 - 18) to warn (20-22 C) to already hot for the time of the year (24-26 C). We are 12 days in and not a single baby has gone from i1 to i2. Living in Taiwan I keep my scorpion at room temperature all year round.
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Den
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/19/2014, 4:01 am

Heterometrus spp develops at a much slower rate than G. ankarana. Your babies should start coming of the mothers back within 2 or 3 weeks....sometimes a tad more.
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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   4/7/2014, 12:14 am

Thanks for pointing that out. It turned out you were right. We are now more then a month in and the young left their mother's back after 20 to 25 days. I have a small problem. There is some canibalism but the mother has dug an impressive hole and all the instars are in there with her. I can barely make hem out and have no idea any more how many are still alive. As there is plenty of food in the form or mealworms, cockroaches (not quite sure which species), crickets, snails and a lot of other vermin that lives in the leaf litter of its tank, I hope she will leave at least a few of them alive for me to be able to remove them when they start to venture out. Just no idea how to take them out though. By hand, with a glove, with a pincet? Will the sting? Is it painful?
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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   4/7/2014, 12:19 am

A quick update. The young left the mother after 20 to 25 days. The mother has dug a rather deep hole into which she and her brood have retired. It is hard to know if there is a lot of canibalism going on though I know at least one instar1 died and also found 1 3/4 eaten. There is plenty of food in the tank that resembles as close as I could make it the place I found the mother.
Looking for advice on how to remove the young instars from the mother into their own individual enclosers. How do I catch them, handle them? Do I use my hands? with gloves? Or small pincet to pluck them away from the mother? Any sound advice welcome.
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shaneshac
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   4/7/2014, 2:45 am

I wouldn't put my hand it to be honest Shocked

If they have left the mothers back it is safe for you to dig her out of the hole and remove the young ones before you are left with just one really fat mother Wink
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Den
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   4/7/2014, 3:20 am

Ok, the first thing i would do is remove all the prey items. Regardless of scorpion specie there's a trait that shows itself again and again and that is that, gravid female scorpions that have taken on enough food will almost always retreat and find a secure location to have their young. Many dig burrow's but there are others that'll dig scrapes under stones and seal the entrances or hide amongst bark or whatever else the local environment offers.
For this reason most experienced breeders will not allow prey items (especially crickets!!) to roam loose in an enclosure around parturition. They will in all likelihood simply stress the mother, pose a major risk factor for the young and accelerate unsanitary conditions that could lead to infestations for the young and adults.
Scorpions are not like cats and dogs that eat every day...Typically in the wild they'll eat until they don't need more then retreat and hide...Males wander around looking for females but if a female is well fed she's hidden away. She's not going to be anywhere where prey items are literally within arms reach 24/7....scorpions are reclusive creatures.
It's my opinion that many scorpion problems are directly related to stress in one form or another created by a wealth of external stimuli that a scorpion in it's natural habitat simply wouldn't experience.

As for collecting the young you can do as shaneshac says. Simply use a small suitably sized plastic container and a chop stick (or whatever). Use the chop stick to usher the young scorp into the plastic container you place in front of it. Once in the container you can move it wherever you want without risk of damaging it or it damaging you. Keep all contact to a minimum. Don't use tongs or pincets.

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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   4/7/2014, 10:37 pm

Thanks for all that info. Will now have to go out and get seperate housing for all those little critters. Just had an other look and they seem to be doing well. The tank they are in is pretty big (200 L or about 50 gl I think) There are plenty of place to hide but from the very beginning I have put in some roaches, crickets, wood lice, worms, meal worms, fruitflies. In fact the tank is not at all close from the top so anything that wants out can get out anything that wants in gets in. I feed the other insects and I have only done 2 feedings in the very beginning ever since then everything in there has just kept breeding and that was what she could eat. I found her under a huge stack of roof tiles that needed to be moved. There were plenty of other critters running around there are well: millepeeds, giant centipeeds, roaches, termites, ants, snails, beatle larvae, spiders,... So that is the environment I wanted to recreate for her. I don't feel that the extra animals running around it a big problem as it was what she was used to. Still I will be a good idea to remove the instars.
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Den
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PostSubject: Questions about raising Heterometrus scorplings   4/8/2014, 2:01 am

geertlpa168 wrote:
I found her under a huge stack of roof tiles that needed to be moved. There were plenty of other critters running around there are well: millepeeds, giant centipeeds, roaches, termites, ants, snails, beatle larvae, spiders,... So that is the environment I wanted to recreate for her.

Den wrote:
gravid female scorpions that have taken on enough food will almost always retreat and find a secure location to have their young

I understand your logic and i know you did what you thought was appropiate. The trouble is, you took a moment picture and applied it as a permanent picture...In my mind you found your scorp where you found her simply because she was still in eating mode.
She's since been in conditions where her enclosure at night time has surely teemed with activity (200 liters is not that big if it's full of creatures) .. great for hungry scorps, not so much for heavily gravid females...i'm not surprised there's been problems.

geertlpa168 wrote:
I don't feel that the extra animals running around it a big problem as it was what she was used to.

Chuckles......unless you had raised her from 2i you have no idea of what she was used to...but no, you're right...for 50% of the time that would be ok...but not 100%.
I suggest you read much more about scorpions in general if you're to successfully raise these young...there will be key moments where what you do decides whether they live or not.

@Mods .. could you move these heterometrus posts over into geerts own "Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!" thread...
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geertlpa168
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   4/9/2014, 10:03 pm

Once again I bow to your knowledge. I do notice that the other insects in the tank seem to stay on the opposite side of where she has her burrow. I think they know what is going on. It has been 3 days since I had a look. One second and I'll have an update. Mother and instars look to be doing fine. The young ones are hiding behind the mother. She has extended her burrow. I am looking for a place to put all those young scorpions. Have not found anything like the tackle box you have. After some searching I have found some hard plastic boxes at a very reasonable price that can do the trick.
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ekfxe
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PostSubject: Re: Heterometrus cyaneus (?) it has happened. A new brood!   3/12/2015, 12:27 am

Hello! I know I'm probably just bumping a dead thread.... But, I wanted to know how your H. cyaneus' are doing? I'm actually really interested in getting this species myself.
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