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 euscorpius concinnus or italicus?

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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


Number of posts : 8
Age : 24
Registration date : 2013-09-07

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty
PostSubject: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty9/8/2013, 11:12 am

I know that this is a euscorpius spp. it was sold to me as an adult E. concinnus but I think that it is a young E. italicus, what do you guys think it is?
also i think it is a female but not 100%. Is it?

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euscorpius concinnus or italicus? <a href=euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF1986_zps8727a426" />

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? <a href=euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF1987_zpsb90dc749" />euscorpius concinnus or italicus? <a href=euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF1988_zps04d1c324" />

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? <a href=euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF1992_zpse96e2e73" />

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euscorpius concinnus or italicus? <a href=euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF2002_zps27648f88" />
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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


Number of posts : 8
Age : 24
Registration date : 2013-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/25/2014, 5:28 pm

I know I posted this ages ago but does anyone know??


Last edited by Scotscorpius on 3/25/2014, 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : .)
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Callum B
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Callum B

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/26/2014, 2:38 am

Hi, Euscorpius spp. can be a challenge to identify as so many of them look the same. Often the only way to distinguish them is to count the trichobothria on the chela and patella, and know the locality.

Here is a key to the Euscorpius

You will need a magnifying glass or a close-up/macro mode on your camera to see the trichobothria. If you're having difficulty, try and get some clear pictures and I will have a look for you.
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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


Number of posts : 8
Age : 24
Registration date : 2013-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/26/2014, 3:59 am

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF2264_zpsd09a99ff

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euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF2270_zpsefd2f0b2

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF2269_zps7c63fd78
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Callum B
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Callum B

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/26/2014, 12:34 pm

Thanks for the pictures. It's not looking like E. concinnus but if you've got the time to take some more pictures I'll be able to give you a more accurate ID.

I need a clear close up of these two areas (red circles) that shows all the trichobothria (some are pointed out with green lines).

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Chela_zps57e40f7f

It's a struggle to get a good picture of these areas when you are dealing with a live scorpion but I've posted a guide on how you can hold your scorpion in place. Scroll down to the sexing your scorpion section HERE. Your camera should be able to focus in enough detail on the chela and patella as the centre detail of some of the pictures you've already posted is nice and clear.
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Callum B
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Callum B

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/26/2014, 12:40 pm

Also, do you know where your scorpion originated from?
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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/26/2014, 1:16 pm

Thanks, I'm not sure where it originated and yep I will take more when I get home
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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/26/2014, 2:35 pm

euscorpius concinnus or italicus? DSCF2286_zps72587fe6

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Callum B
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Callum B

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/27/2014, 2:42 am

Thanks for the pictures. I think I can make out 10 or 11 trichobothria on the chela and around 12 on the patella which corresponds with Euscorpius italicus on the Euscorpius keys I've had a look at. However, I'll have a look at some more tonight to double check it's definitely not anything else.

Where did you buy it from if you don't mind me asking?
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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/27/2014, 3:37 am

thought so, thank you and www.bugzuk.com
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Callum B
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Callum B

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/28/2014, 6:18 am

Errrgghh, I wish I was more qualified to give you a definite answer.

After looking at a number of papers on Euscorpius this is my conclusion (if any scorpionologists read this they will probably laugh  Laughing).

The number and arrangement of trichobothria on the ventral aspect of the chela fits with either Euscorpius italicus or Euscorpius naupliensis. The problem is I'm not capable of looking in anymore detail at the identifying features that separate the two species. If the origin of the scorpion in question was known however, I could give you a 100% definite ID (I think, if I am understanding the papers correctly). E. italicus has a large range throughout Europe (France, Italy, parts of mainland Greece etc. etc.) whereas E. naupliensis is restricted to the Peloponnese and Zakynthos only (E. italicus is not found here).

Unfortunately the collection site is not known because bugzuk are pretty useless with scorpions and localities are not listed on their site, plus they've sent you the wrong species. Bugzuk are offering E. italicus so there's a good chance you've ended up with one, but they're also offering Euscorpius sp. 'Kalogria' which suggests it was collected on the Peloponnese island, although not actually in The Peloponnese area itself. There's so many times that ID and locality can have been muddled and mistaken before the scorpion ended up with you it's created a mystery as to what you've got.

Of course this isn't a problem for you who is only keeping one as care is pretty similar for most Euscorpius spp. However, if you were breeding this scorpion with others you'd purchased from bugzuk you could end up unknowingly creating hybrids (and I hate hybrids  Laughing).
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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/29/2014, 2:21 pm

Thanks, was thinking of breeding but going to leave it for now to see if she grows any more, also it seems impossible to get any males
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Callum B
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Callum B

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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/30/2014, 6:41 am

I might see if I can get a more knowledgeable person to take a look.

I've got a couple of adult male Euscorpius italicus. I've had them for a while now but if they're still alive when you decide to breed I'll happily loan you one. They've also fathered a lot of babies so in a couple of years I'm sure I'll have plenty of surplus males.

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Scotscorpius
Pandinus


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PostSubject: Re: euscorpius concinnus or italicus?   euscorpius concinnus or italicus? Empty3/30/2014, 8:13 am

awesome! thanks, what size are your males?
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