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 Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!

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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/20/2013, 9:28 am

So I'm taking the hop into a 'Hot' species with the A. Australis.  I've done a lot of research regarding safe handling practices, I sprung for a fancy Exo Terra terrarium with locks, ventilation, and very little escape vectors.  I've set up a natural looking habitat with loose sand substrate and plenty of rocks/terrain for entertainment.

I'm extremely cautious with handling my inverts - as in I never do.  Even my Emperors are left to their tanks.  Cleaning tanks is a process I give great respect to, so I'm not worried about envenomations.

That said, I'm never one to assume that something can't happen because I'm careful.  

Does anyone have any good information on the effects and precautions that should be taken as a result of envenomation from this species?  First hand experience, old reports regarding it, or even old bush remedies for it.

What are some steps I, as a layman, can take to help my chances with envenomation?  I read through the four part write up in the Envenomation Reports and found it a bit too medical for my understanding. I'd like to hear from people who've been keeping them!

Thanks for the help!
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lweigle
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 10:56 pm

well i have never been envenomated by an A. Australis but some good precaution steps are to make sure you have a plan find your closest hospital and would be good to have a map printed out to the closest hospital if you are in the US antivenom is not readily available i think Miami venom bank might have some, keep a list of emergency numbers by the cage of hospitals, poison control, and venombank if you live in the US. i keep a venom suction kit on hand for some of my venomous sp i beleave you can find it at walmart. apply the suction kit as soon as possible after envenomation call 911 and let them know what had happened and tell them which hospital your heading too and what sp you had been envenomated by, also call Miami venom bank depending if your in the US. Remember to try to keep as calm as possible the more you panic the faster the venom will spread through your body. If it is possible make sure that you can have a person to drive you to the hospital the last option would be to drive your self to the hospital an ambulance in my opinion is an unneeded expense and might waste valuable time. This is the steps i would take if I was envenomated by a very dangerous sp of snake or scorpion. A normal healthy adult has a very good chance of surviving an envenomation from an A. australis so keep this in mind. here is a little statistic if found “in Algeria from 1942-1958 with 20,164 stings reported only 386 were fatal leaving a mortality rate of 1.91% in Androctonus australis” ( Balozet, L. 1971. Scorpionism in the Old World. Pages 349-371. In: Venomous Animals and Their Venoms. Volume 3. Venomous Invertebrates (W. Bücherl & E. E. Buckley, eds.). Academic, New York.) I do not beleive that in 1942-1958 that anti venom for the sp was developed but i might be wrong on this. I hope that this info was what you were searching for.
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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:01 pm

Exactly - thanks. I'll have to swing by my Walmart for the Suction Kit.

Living in the Chicagoland area means no Venombanks near me.
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ShredderEmp
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:07 pm

What part of Chicagoland do you live in?
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Bayushi-san
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:30 pm

Southwest Suburbs.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:37 pm

Oh, I could be pretty close! I'll PM you.
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TheKevil
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:41 pm

Yep. No venom banks around at all. Sad We did a lot of research when I got my A. australis and my LQ. Closest is Miami. On top of that, antivenin is about $2000/vial and you need something like 20 vials for an adult. A lot of insurances won't cover it, either.

Honestly, though, if you get yourself to a hospital immediately after envenomation, you will generally be OK, just in some really really really bad pain for a while. As long as you aren't allergic or your immune system isn't otherwise compromised. Scorpion venom (no matter the species, not even LQ or H. tamulus) isn't usually powerful enough to kill a healthy adult. Isn't usually. It does happen, so don't get cocky. Wink Pulmonary embolism is not something you want to experience.

Another bit of advice... Have someone else that knows the plan, also. And have them there with you in times where there is risk of being stung. My girlfriend and her daughter know the safety plans and know what to do if I get stung and even if the specimen gets out while I am envenomated.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:46 pm

TheKevil wrote:
Scorpion venom (no matter the species, not even LQ or H. tamulus) isn't usually powerful enough to kill a healthy adult. Isn't usually. It does happen, so don't get cocky. Wink

Hemiscorpius lepturus.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/21/2013, 11:54 pm

And here I thought there weren't Scorpions that could do that kind of thing to people.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:08 am

H. lepturus still doesn't normally kill, from what I'm reading. They stand a higher chance, but still not for certain. Seems like it woukd be a horrible experience, though. I'm intrigued, now. I want to know...
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:15 am

On The Scorpion Files it says it's responsible for 95% of deaths from scorpion stings.
http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/h_lepturus.php
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:20 am

95% from that particular area. And it doesn't give the demographics as to how many kids, elderly, sick, etc were part of that statistic. Also, it doesn't say how many survived the sting.

From what I understand, A. australis and L. quinquestriatus are being debated as to which is the deadliest in existence. H. tamulus is reported by some to be the most lethal, also.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:21 am

It also says it's only responsible for around 10% of the stings...
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:33 am

Again, in that area. It seems to be pretty powerful, but those 12% stings could be to mostly children or sickly people. Not saying you're wrong. Just saying there isn't enough info to really be certain.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:36 am

Yes, but they could also be healthy adults. I guess we just need to find more info. Then again, we are off topic.

My advice on not getting stung is to be as careful as possible and to try having a spotter so someone can tell you where it is at all times.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 12:38 am

Oh! Bayushi... You said you're setting up the enclosure with loose sand... A. australis love to burrow. Honestly, it's kind of to a bad point sometimes. They don't come out much at all. Mine happened to burrow on the side of it's enclosure so I can see it in the burrow. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't see it at all most of the time.

That being said, you may be better using a sand/excavator clay mix, wetting it down and letting it harden. They can do better burrows that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 3:23 am

Would a hide on loose sand be sufficient though? Cause that's what I plan on doing with my australis when it gets bigger.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 6:38 am

Sufficient, yes. For sure. It will work and the scorp will be just fine. Having a way to burrow, though, is always the best condition for a specimen like that, though. A. australis are very nervous and shy. Eliminating stress wherever possible and letting them do what they want to do is always good. They can burrow in loose sand, but the burrow will likely collapse and it won't be able to be dug as deep.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting my A. Australis - looking for some advice!   7/22/2013, 9:41 am

Yeah at the time I was just looking at the 'Habitat' paragraph in the link and figured it'd be fine.

http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/a_australis.php

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